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Lemon Grove...
Submitted by markwayne on Wed, 2007/05/30 - 11:10.
With great sadness we read of a Nicaliving memeber who is with us and her loved ones no more.
All I have read is that she was murdered in Granada.
Does anyone have any facts regarding the exact situation regarding this horrible crime?
Was it a home invasion? Suspects?
While I did not know Lemon Grove personaly I think we all need to learn as much as we can from this and other such tragic events to help ourselves and help other avoid such.
People bravely come to Nicaragua and other places to start new lives in new directions..
Did anyone here know her personally?
Could anyone who knew her comment on how this may have happened (random) or other..
More info...
I met Lemon a couple of times before she died.
We had some drinks together one day and she told me all about her troubles with her neighbours and their friends. She told me she was sick of the neighbours hanging around out the front of her house. She said she put up a fence on the path outside her house (illegally) and that she was told to take it down by police. She told me the teenagers would block her from getting to her door and that they would not move when she asked them to. She told me they kept staring in through her windows. She told me she was broken into. She told me she wanted to get even.
I told her that I thought the best thing to do was to try not to make the situation worse. I told her that putting up the fence around the house was probably seen as hostile. I told her that if she wanted to solve the situation she should be careful not to antagonize them.
She completely ignored my advice. She told me that another person had said all the same things to her. She said she wanted to fight back. Unfortunately, other people she talked to encouraged her.
I found out that, later that night, she went outside and egged their house.
I don't know what happened after that but 2 weeks later she was in a coma in hospital and a day or two later she died.
There were reports/rumours that she was a heavy drinker. I don't know about that, but I believe that this was based on her keeping a lot of rum in her house. This was because she was making rum infusions - rum infused with different fruits. The police may have taken this to mean she drank a lot.
It is still unclear (from what I understand) whether there was more than one attacker. It was initially said that she had been raped but apparently that has also become unclear because she was found clothed and there was no DNA evidence suggesting rape, again this is only from what I understand. However, I have my information from someone who has talked to the police and the lawyers. Hopefully, for her sake, she was not raped and that she felt very little pain.
I want to be very clear: this was not a Nicas vs Gringos situation. This was a dispute between neighbours that got out of control. But more than that, it involved a known drug addict who was probably pissed off with her for standing up to them and was after any valuables he could find and maybe to scare her a bit. That's often how these things start.
There are people who believe she was asking for it. That is wrong. She was not asking for what she got... I do think she was asking for trouble though.
My deepest condolences go out to Lemon's family. In the brief time I knew her, I found her to be a strong and beautiful person.
Lemon Update
I thought I posted this but can't seem to find it.
The trial was Tuesday. Here is an article on it. I hope her family and friends can find some peace.
http://www.elnuevodiario.com.ni/2007/08/23/nacionales/57046
Also, philanthropist Peder Kolind is rumored to be purchasing her home as a safe house for abused women. He was not in town when I was there so can't confirm. I can't imagine a more healing thing to do for the community. Bless him.
I just spent the last 8 weeks there and walked by the home every day to our office. It took me a bit of time to heal as well and I was not directly affected.
Kathy Adams Director/Founder Empowerment International www.empowermentinternational.org kathy@empowermentinternational.org
lemon groves
tucker-i knew her-we were both from oregon and lived a block from each other near puente papa Q in granada-she had her house broken in before while she was sleeping and all her stuff taken-i told her she should put some concertina wire on the back wall to prevent it happening again-she told me that she refused to live in a compound-she always had smile-she was a great lady-i will miss her-i'm back in the states at the present time and would like to know more about her murder-tim rogers emailed me and said that the tica times covered it but i can't get it online-i would appreciate if someone could cut and past the article to me
Oregon News Article
The family in Portland, Oregon USA is pretty upset with how the case is being handled:
http://www.kxl.com/ArDisplay.aspx?SecID=1&ID=54351
Information
Read on Tico Times-daily news section, May 29th that attacker was a 21 year old drug addict who broke into her home (came over the back wall)and commited the crime..they said also that Grenada is experiencing a crime wave of acts against gringos.
Tico Times
a true source of "Information"..... NOT!
While the drug addict part is true, if have not heard of a "crime wave" against gringos in Granada or anywhere else in Nicaragua. We had two very sad cases back to back. As we all know these cases are not the norm.
I guess sensationalism sells papers...
Sensationalism Maybe
Link provided by a former NL member:
http://www.elnuevodiario.com.ni/2007/05/26/sucesos/49703
some of may be true
I was visiting a good friend in managua two weeks ago he had other guests from Leon i don't know their name the wife was to scared to come down stairs. She and Her husband had a home invasion robbery and two men worked her over pretty good making him watch the night before they where only waiting for a plane to leave and yes their house and cars are for sale they left. one another note the entire last year i was pulled over by police only twice, these days i can't even travell to managua without being inspect or harassed at least twice. Yesterday i was inspect 4 times in 10 miles near ticuantepe, they tore my car apart looking for my firextinguser and triangle. I told them i had neither, the next road block took my car apart again even looking under the carpet for drugs and guns. Alot of the frienliness that i thought Nicaragua was about is evaporating, o by the way only white people where being searched brown folks where waved by.
Home Invasion
Brian,
Where did the home inavion take place? Leon..Managua?
Granada
It happened near Puente de Papa Q in an area called La Isleta. We have our office there. It was not considered a 'bad' neighborhood. We are moving though in light of this. Most people are learning that living alone is not such a great idea in Granada.
Kathy Adams Director/Founder Empowerment International www.empowermentinternational.org kathy@empowermentinternational.org
LEMON GROVES-DO YOU THINK BARB WIRE HELPS
thanks-kathy-i would appreciate the article-well-i love nicaragua but you have to secure your home-probably concertina wire would not have prevented the crime-i had a thick wooden door and bars on the back of my house which i secure every night and i have permission to carry a concealed weapon which the gangbangers know about-also my jack russell terrier dog-nina-who will bark if there is a disturbance-also i get along with the neighborhood boys-lemon 's dog was poisoned-she drank heavily and didn't lock her back door-she antagonize the local boys by building a fence around her front porch to keep them off of it-she was a single woman living by herself-this is all conjecture now-who knows what would have prevented this-take care-tucker-email address-ttexas@earthlink.net
No barbed wire but... nails in the walls
Apparently she drove nails into her external walls and snipped off the heads so they were sharp. Apparently, the other guys who are said to have broken in with her attacker scratched themselves up badly on them when they slid down the wall. Not barbed wire but it would have hurt. :)
Did you even know Lemon?
Tucker, Did you personally know my sister? It sounds like you didn't. She did not "Drink Heavily" nor did she antagonize the local boys. She did not like them hanging out on her porch drinking, cussing and carving graffiti on her house....that is why she put the fence up. Even if she didn't lock her doors (which I don't believe) that didn't give that crack head the right to come in her home rape and beat her to death. Please do not ever comment again about my sister!! Thanks!!
Oh Boy ..or Girl
Doesn't sound like having an option ...like living alone. thats scary for a lot of folks. you have almost to take for granted, erpecially the older you get, SAFE. happenings and day to day bullshit is like the weather to an experienced Salt. perhaps,in order to buy into that state you have to marry a Nica,a kind of Insurance..otherwise ships pass in the night and the bad guys will sink you if they get the chance.
Marrying not the answer....help empower them....
I would never marry *for safety*, that could be worse in the long run if not coming from the heart. Roommates work fine...safety in numbers. Also hiring a live in security person works. There have been robberies recently in Granada with Nicaraguan native households too. The numbers seem to be scewed towards us foreigners but no one is immune. We are more likely to be the culprits since we have more.
In some ways I can understand. I have spent many hours processing the disparities in my own mind and it feels so unjust....
Imagine...some families we work with in my organization earn $40 a month. What must it feel like to a local with what almost seems like an invasion of foriegners on their land flashing around $40 or more just for a night in a hotel. The we have all this fancy gear, drive around in cars instead of walking, we marrying their lovely young women and sometimes men, we buy their property and turn it over millions of $ not even cordobas? This has bothered me long before the crime wave has started. (And from personal experience and observation there is a ramp in this since when I first started working there in 2003...especially in the last year).
While compassion or empathy won't cure the issue I think we need to look at the whole picture and work with the natives to make their lives better especially if the motive is to move there to our own lives better and more comfortable. We could say we worked hard for our money and can now enjoy the fruits, but they work harder than most people I have ever met and they barely survive. If we do good things for them (not just giving them things since this just feeds the cycle but by actually helping to empower them )this will be recognized and create more natural protection and less division.
What happened to Lemon may be a compilation of the general overall feeling towards 'us'. I think bridging the gap as a community of expats is the most effective way...and this means that someday there would be only one forum like this where we all participate, foreigners and Nicas. Maybe I am an idealist...and maybe I am opening a can of worms but it feels good to express what has been bugging me for so long...and now I see the effects starting to take place so maybe it's time for us to take another look at what we are doing in their country and how to make our presence a worthwhile one and not one to be resented.
Kathy Adams Director/Founder Empowerment International www.empowermentinternational.org kathy@empowermentinternational.org
Others
"In some ways I can understand. I have spent many hours processing the disparities in my own mind and it feels so unjust...."
What is it that you "understand"? Is it the need or ease by which people are to justify the taking of what their neighbor has because they has more? It is not "their" property which is turned over for millions (people who make $40 a month do not own expensive property) - which almost never happens anyway. You are conflating people who live in a country with people who own parts of that country. Two very different groups of people. Marrying their young people? They are not property that is stolen and that act is something the young people share equal responsibility for. If a wealthy foreigner does the same thing as a wealthy Nicaraguan then there is no reason to hold the foreigner to some other standard of measure. If a middle class or wealthy Nicaraguan did such things no one would blink an eye. No real reason to do that when a foreigner does the same. The rest is mostly just excuses for bad personal behavior. If you know the difference between the poor thief and the poor honest person then you know the only difference that matters. When you go beyond that it is the realms of guilt and envy you enter and neither one has much to recommend it. Helping people and crime only compete if someone assumes that people who want a better or different life will steal unless they are given or delivered it.
Expensive Property
To me, this alone is an interesting issue. All too often (and while I am talking about Nicaragua now, this was the case in Southern California 50 years ago and near Seattle 25 years ago) someone owns some land they are "using". That is, the land produces something they can sell to buy the goods they do not have.
Someone with money (a relative term) buys land nearby to "develop". Immediately, the market value of their land goes up and, along with it, taxes, cost of local labor, ...
The capitalist way to look at this is that this person just needs to sell their property and they made a big profit. But, what if they don't want to? That is, what if it is the family farm, has been in the family for generations, all the relatives live nearby, ...?
Well, they may have no choice. "Progress" has forced them to change their lifestyle--something which they may be incapable of doing as well as uninterested in doing. And, in this case we are talking about "Gringo progress" forcing changes upon these people in their own country.
The quick answer is "we are paying them". And the equally quick answer is "did this work for Native Americans"? I quick trip to a reservation answers that question.
I don't have "a solution" but this is something I have observed in Gardena, California, the Green River Valley south of Seattle and here in Nicaragua. In California and Washington state, there was a government safety net to help the people. Here, there is none.
in arizona too
Just a couple neighborhoods down from where my aunt lived in Phonenix, Ariznoa there was a old, inhabited, run-down house on a corner lot in a quickly developing neighborhood. There had been homes on that whole road, but they had all previously been bought out by big stores/companies to be knocked down and to build new businesses. the owners of this corner lot held their ground for a good 2 or 3 years, then finally sold their lot/house, which - in the terrible condition it was in - would normally probably go for only about $50,000-60,000 for nearly $1.5 million. Incredible what people in cities will pay for a little 1/4 acre lot.
En Cristo, -Marissa
empathy is not condoning
note: all of my comments are my personal observed generaliztions and do not apply to specific individuals.
When I say I can understand , that does not mean I believe it is right for anyone to rob others. What I am saying is as we go down here as tourists and expats we often are not attentive to the fact that we often flaunt our goods (cameras, ipods, laptops, rental cars) that even middle class folks can only dream of owning. I think a bit more humbleness and mindfulness on our parts will allow us to understand the local people and allow them to know us as people not as material folks (and we might grow in ways we never imagined). Also realizing in that humbleness how it must feel to them (even the middle class) for us to do what we have been doing...buying up their country's property and building the equivalent to palaces in their eyes, eating in places they can't afford to walk into that were basically built for 'us' not them.
I am suggesting we take a look at our part in the problem. There must be a way to approach this from a more balanced manner. Each party in any troubled relationship has a part in it. I am also suggesting we look at our own part and take responsibility for it. I realize this is a paradigm shift for many but one worthy of exploring. Of course people earning $40 a month may not be owners of land worth of buying, but they could too, depending on what 'we' decide is worthy. I have friends who own land in a town in Teustepe that are very poor yet if it happened to be on a lake or ocean it may be considered valuable. People inherit land long before it had inflated values, homes and land stay in families often for generations.
In the USA most immigrants are poorer and less educated than us. This gives us that sense of being superior and I think we carry this down with us when we decide to move to their countries.
There was a question about do we need to marry a local for safety. I believe developing genuine relationships with the locals will create some sort of inherent protection. Your neighbors may not be the thieves, but they may be the ones that can as a neighbors choose to notice a robber attempting to enter your home or not. They can choose to help you if you are in trouble or not. I have met many Nica's who have helped me in situations that could have been dangerous (ie. a glue sniffer blocked my door so I could not enter and another man helped me enter...will this happen in another five year? Depends on us as a whole I think )
Again, I believe if we, who enter another country with more money and education than the locals with the motivation of making great lives for ourselves with our US dollars, invest our energy in the locals in an empowering, humble manner we can create a different image of ourselves. In 2003, strangers in Granada treated me much differently than now. (I am not living in Granada full time yet which gives me an opportunity to see things pretty close but have some perspective from a bit of emotional distance). I believe it is due to the way they have been treated by us directly and indirectly.
Overall, what I am suggesting ,is to put ourselves in their shoes for just a few moments in our minds and really think about how they must feel. Then approach them with a humbleness and I also suggest connecting with locals and developing genuine friendships based not on the material world but on humility and open eyes. Appreciate what their heritage and culture has to offer us. Bridge this growing gap I see happening. If we choose to live in another country or even visit I think the responsible and enriching thing to do is to learn their world and find a way to connect within it. Since they have so many needs and we are in their world and have more education and money, what can we do to create a better world for them while embracing their culture? I see many expats in Granada living in their own worlds in a separate community and not connecting with the locals other than as employees...this certainly is creating a larger gap. It sure might be helpful to start closing that and not widening it.
I saw the similar things occur over the years I lived in Costa Rica. It would be nice if we could develop a different relationship with Nica's.
Kathy Adams Director/Founder Empowerment International www.empowermentinternational.org kathy@empowermentinternational.org
More on Lemon and safety
This just came out...feel free to attend and to honor Lemon in mass or with the memory board.
"For those seeking an update regarding Lemon and over-all safety within Granada, this email distribution list has been created. All information, updates, and communication will be sent via this email address going forward.
As you may all know, the US Consulate will be speaking today at 1pm, Jockey Club, regarding safety. All, regardless of nationality, are invited to attend. An additional safety meeting will be announced and held within approximately 10 days. The second meeting will be directed to more local matters, and a notice will be sent.
For nine days (today being the second), La Merced Church is holding Mass at 5pm in memory of Lemon.
Additionally, a Memory Board has been placed in front of Lemon´s home. Please attach photographs or anything you feel appropriate to show our love and condolences to her and her family. This has not been erected for only our healing, but to remind the Granada community of how highly Lemon was regarded and loved.
More news to follow over the following as it is received
Sincerely,
The Granada Community"
Kathy Adams Director/Founder Empowerment International www.empowermentinternational.org kathy@empowermentinternational.org
In Memory of Lemon
So far...I have not seen any posts from anyone who knew her. That is sad. Not anyone from the community of Granada...nor family....Plenty of philosophy...political rhetoric....nothing personal. Was Lemon one of the shadow people ?Her neighbors musy have known her. Has anyone known her as a person...not merely a tragic event ? We can all wonder why...and come up with tactics for personal safety...and wonder if Gringos are targets...it is all too strange. The sick young man who killed her was convinced to turn himself in by his mother...yes ? He wasn't hidden...he wasn't protected. I am a Mother....I have lost one child....but I can't imagine the agony of knowing your child is so sick/desperate, the way the mind can be so screwed...to feel and know...your child must face so much and be imprisioned to be saved. .....damn drugs. So many people's lives...dead...destroyed....That's the target enemy. I certainly have no la la going on that Nicaragua is a safe haven but.....I do not feel any less safe nor fearful of moving there now. But...I might think about better security just cause it hits the reality button. So...no froo froo doggie....back to what did here in the good old "safe" USA....where I have had serious doubts as to my safety....another huge, well trained,loyal, totally imposing and scary canine companion. I raised them,trained them..and did not know how vulnerable was until I did not have this protection. Then felt so bad....I must have made nervous wrecks out of them..they had a pretty responsible job 24/7! Anyone who knew Lemon...please post something personal.For her memory.No matter how hurt you are...it is for her.
Our staff knew her on various levels
One was very close the rest moderately. I met her once and have been in her home. Met her ex boyfriend as well. She had many friends in Granada. Her house was a few away from our house/office.
I am not comfortable speaking about her personally since I did not know her well and it seems the defense is trying to gather evidence against her and a petition went out stating what a lovely spiritual being she was.
First round of court was yesterday at 2pm and many folks went on her behalf as support. The community is standing by her, supporting her family and *her*. There is a memory board in front of her home and they had 2 masses in her honor. I think folks are getting their healing done in the community. I wish I were there but won't be for another few weeks.
Kathy Adams Director/Founder Empowerment International www.empowermentinternational.org kathy@empowermentinternational.org
Nicatimes
Has a huge article on Lemon and the increase in crime in Granada.
Kathy Adams Director/Founder Empowerment International www.empowermentinternational.org kathy@empowermentinternational.org
Nicatimes
Nicatimes is a product of Tico Times, a paper I used to read when I lived in the US. Once I moved to Costa Rica, my conclusion was that those writing/editing Tico Times must live in Puerto Rico or Brazil or something as little in the paper matched reality.
I was asked if I wanted to write for Nicatimes and brought up this concern. Never heard back so I am guessing Nicatimes is another weekly fiction paper.
Interesting point of view...
I lived in CR for 4 years and have worked in CR and Nica for 9 years. I don't share you point of view. Their stories matched many CR Spanish news.
Tim Rogers the author of the article lives in Granada, Nicaragua not a remote place.
Personally, I have experienced first and second hand a huge up swing in crime since we started working in Granada in 2003 particularly when I was in Granada this most recent Dec-Feb. And our office was robbed by pros during Hipica last year. They cleaned our NGO out of all our computers and other high tech tools. Our local employee has also noted many times that she has never seen so much crime or violence in her life (she is 28 years old so missed the war)
The only comment I have regarding the article I don't agree with is the police point of view. I have not seen them as responsive when we and I needed them. Nor did they try to solve our crime.
Kathy Adams Director/Founder Empowerment International www.empowermentinternational.org kathy@empowermentinternational.org
soooo...
to sum it up, stay out of "gringo towns" and youll be safe? i dont see any body posting about american murders in managua?
En Cristo, -Marissa
Brian
Im Nicaraguan and also get stopped quite often (or at least I used to)until you learn some strategies.It does not have to do with the color of your skin (unless the cop has eagle vision),there are a lot of new rules you have to learn when you travel to a different society,some good, some bad.There is nowhere in the world where you going to find utopia.Nicaraguan people are friendly despite of all the bad rap going around,just like Phil says is just a matter of exercising your common sense,just have to learn how Nicaraguan people live (maybe Phil's book may help you),learn how to avoid dangerous situations,etc.I used to live in San Fransisco and let me tell you, you wouldnt catch me walking around the tenderloin distric at 1 am in the morning.
Grenada Murder
I fail to see how as you say "just use common sense" would have saved this woman in Grenada
Pretty much
Nicareal has answered that question.As a Nicaraguan I would have been prudent of a situation where crack addicts hang out outside my area,specially at night sleeping in a house with an exposed patio.Common sense keep you safe all over the world.Tell me ever heard of kids being kidnapped or rape in the US because they left the window open? Crimes happened whenever you left your guard off.Why do you think the security systems is a booming business in the US?
Lemon Grove
was a victim of a crime committed by a known drug addict. Users of crack are known to commit desperate acts to get the money they need to buy more drugs. Should the police have dealt with him prior to this homicide? Of course they should have! Does this make every gringo in Granada a target? I don't think so.
Some people are natural victims. I am not putting Lemon Grove into this category since I never had the opportunity to meet the lady. However on another forum on this site, home security was being discussed. It really is amazing to what extend our homes are exposed to intruders. Maybe if Lemon would have taken a few simple precautions she may still be alive.
Let's not paint these unfortunate incidences out of proportion and call this a "Crime Wave against gringos". Let's not be paranoid and think that every gringo is being targeted by criminal and even the police. I drive from San Juan Del Sur once or even twice a week. I am know as a fast driver that tends to ignore the odd "Solid Line" when I want to pass and think it is safe to do so. I have not noticed any increase in being pulled over by the police. Sure there are a lot more police on the roads. They now have radar guns that work (most of the time), and they have new bikes and cars. The number of police alone would lead one to believe that the chances of being stopped have increased. I hardly think that "Targeting gringos" would justify the increase of staff.
Isn't it more likely that Nicaragua is slowly "coming of age" and is trying to shed the "Wild West" image? Police in most cases are trying to do the job they are supposed to do. Some will abuse the uniform but more and more are trying to be fair. I was stopped twice within one day in Managua. Both cases involved illegal turns I made in order to save time. In both cases I the police explained what I did wrong and sent me on my way without a fine or asking for a bribe.
I personally have not experienced any negative change in attitude toward gringos.
One reason for more police enforcement
I agree that there is no "Anti-Gringo crime wave" here. What there is is people looking for money. In most cases, the assumption is that a Gringo will have some.
As for the police crackdowns, one reason has been drug enforcement. By this I don't mean the housewife selling pot or even crack (which is common) but they are looking for smugglers. There have been some specific targets in specific areas.
As for "random stops", you are much more likely to get stopped if you are in a rental car or if the plates on your car are from a different department than where you are. Inconvenient but it makes sense.
I disagree
I have to say the situation with the police has gotten so bad since Christmas when I was stopped numerous times and shaken down that I do not drive anymore. Everytime I go from our house to the airport or Managua I am stopped. I have all the appropriate documentation and necessary instruments but am stopped and told to pay a fine. At this point it was much more cost effective to use our driver rather than drive myself. When he is driving we are almost never stopped and when we are we are waved on. It is a shame that one cannot feel free to drive on their own but for me it is not worth it. I spoke to the police in our town and he said unforuntately that is happening more and more.
I knew Lemon Groves. And I love her.
I knew Lemon Groves. I met her when i first moved to Portland 7 years ago. I know she was from Oklahoma and lived to turn 18 so she could leave. She would never tell me her real first name but I know she had a daughter Rayna she loved. A grandson Will she adored. She looked seventeen when she was really forty-two. She only weighted ninety pounds. She was beautiful, sexy, tattooed and lovely. Kind and compassionate. Today I was receiving a facial when I heard of her death. I am so shocked someone could do this. She loved to change her hair colors and to always look good and she always did. I remember she told me that after she came back from Belize, she wanted to be around beautiful brown-skinned people. I started going to a new aesthetican as she was so busy in the bikini business. I received an invitation to her going away and assumed she was moving to California. I hadn't seen Lemon in about 4 years. I think of her often.