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What Happend to Ken Kinzel?
Submitted by fyl on Sun, 2007/05/27 - 13:28.
Most people are aware than NicaLiving member Ken Kinzel was murdered in Estelí earlier this month. A lot, but not all, the discussion leading up to the murder and some details are posted here. Two other articles are here and here as discussions started by his wife in the US.
At this point, public information includes:
- He had about $850,000 in a bank account (reported by El Nuevo Diario)
- He had bought a finca in Miraflor and was developing a hotel there (I personally talked to him about this and what he was doing)
- He was living with Kiutza Hildago who has admitted to murdering him (local TV news and a lot more)
- Her mother stated he had only known her for a few (3, I believe) months, she was working as a translator for him and they didn't know each other that well (local TV news and, yes, this conflicts with lots of other information)
- ... and a whole lot more that doesn't seem very important (yet)
I also know of some misstatements in the press already. So, I am all for collecting facts here but would prefer to stick with facts that can be sourced. So, if you have something to add, please site the source.
Based on what I know, what I have been told and what I am aware is happening, I think there is going to be a lot more to the story before it is "pregnant 17 year old shoots abusive Gringo". So, I have started this forum so we can keep all the pieces together.
Today's Stranger News
There is an article in El Nuevo Diario today that offers the next set of conflicting facts. Of particular interest is:
Oh, there is more but you can practice your Spanish on the original article if you like.
nicatimes.net , link
http://www.nicatimes.net/nicaarchive/062207.htm
Weekly Edition Newspaper: June 22 - June 28, 2007 | San José Costa Rica
News from Nicaragua: Murder Victim’s Honor Defended on Web
Gun Found
A coyote (money changer) was arrested in Chinandega on other charges. He was in possession of the gun that was used to kill Ken Kinzel. He was one of three or four owners of record of the weapon.
At this point the police are looking for the real story instead of the rather unrealistic confession. We'll see.
And, note to Marty: Did you really ask to borrow a police vehicle to go to Ken's property in Miraflor? Here, paying for the fuel for the police to come to your house is a bit closer to the norm.
Electric Circular Saw?
I have been thinking for a couple of days about the idea that an electric circular saw was used to cut up Ken's body. With no explanation in sight, I figured it was time to at least register my confusion.
Estelí is basically the center of an agricultural area. The non-local businesses consist of Palí (owned by WalMart) and Payless Shoe Source. I suppose you can toss in the new Subway franchise.
People here use a machete to do almost everything. That includes chopping down huge trees, cutting construction lumber to size, trimming a hedge and digging small holes. It is also the low-budget defensive (and sometimes offensive) weapon of choice.
So, where did this electric circular saw come from? You could assume it was Ken's but it was described as new. Would Ken have bought it here? Not likely as he didn't have electricity where he was building.
Even skipping the "why", where did it come from? Who bought it? If it was bought in Estelí by a pregnant 17 year old, the vendor would remember that. While there are multiple places to buy such a saw here, I would be surprised if more than a couple of saws of this type were sold each month in Estelí.
cupid
Who played Cupid and introduced Ken to Kiutsa as a Spanish tutor?
I hate to be quoted out of
I hate to be quoted out of context:
http://www.nicatimes.net/
Whoo hoo, we're all Rock Stars now. So I guess just like Leon and Granada have been the poles for political leanings, now two boards have been labled/ordained/identified - NicaLiving.com for the left and Therealnicaragua.com for the right.
There is one inconsistancy that remains in my mind. If you are a Quaker, domestic abuse is out of the question, but having an affair with a young girl is ok?
sorry to answer late
I was out of the country... Quakers, like everybody else are not perfect, and Ken was certainly not perfect. Quaker men (while frankly better than most) are not immune from male menopause and sexy young things coming on to them, especially when their wives are far away, they are alone in a strange country, and they are drinking. I think we all know he screwed up getting involved with KKHT. At one point he said that she was not "una puta mercenaria" as she had been called by his landlady, but perhaps thinking this was "the biggest mistake of my life." (which it obviously was way beyond his or anyone else's imagination).
And can we get away from the "young girl" crap? She was not 10 or 12? She was an almost 18 year old mom, with a 2 year old son from a previous relationship, and she lied about her age to him. She told him she was a 21 year old university student.
Do you ask to see someone's ID every time you meet them?
that was the advice i gave soldiers in korea....
and i asked them to get consent in writing. (i had to give the jag inprocessing briefing to all new soldiers at 2ID. "wouldn't be prudent....")
quakers are human? sage, say it ain't so.
A bit more on the article
After re-reading the article, I guess I will take offense with the following:
Was NicaLiving a questionable news source? Or, did it just ask questions? I think we did a good job of responding and collection.
I contrast that with the article:
Yup, I will stick with our on-line community. When you say something wrong, someone calls you on it and their position gets as much coverage as the original article.
Stick with what you know
Let's face it: you don't know Marty, and probably never will. I can assure you she has no desire to meet you. Why don't you just leave your assumptions/presumptions/suppositions/speculations/wild guesses, etc. where they are (in your head), and let Ken rest in peace. Oh, and by the way, the baby died. You all feel better now?
Thousands
Of babies die each and every day. Should we feel any different (or any more or less indifferent) because one of them happened to be the offspring of a murdering adultress raising another bastard-born child ?
Do you think that the death of this one child could make anyone feel better now ? How petty and trite....you must think we are...why are you filled with such barely repressed anger.
Each life is precious. Every death diminishes us all.
What have you done to improve the lot of any Nicaraguan ?
Don't you think that the extreme poverty rampant here was a contributing factor to the whole ugly incident?
What have you done for Nicaragua today?
We know what fyl and many others are doing to help. Will you help, too ? Or... just..spew...venom
Hmmm...
methinks there's yet another armchair psychiatrist at work here. Go back and re-read your Psych 1 books, and THEN you might let a real analyst decipher what I wrote. "Barely repressed anger", my ass. Look who's talking: what exactly were YOU expressing when you wrote: "Should we feel any different (or any more or less indifferent) because one of them happened to be the offspring of a murdering adultress raising another bastard-born child ?" Talk about spewing venom.
I shouldn't have said what I did about the baby, OK? My bad, and I do apologize. And, in case you didn't read my bio, do you honestly think that I DON'T know just how poverty contributes to just about everything that's wrong in Nicaragua? Now, as to what I've done to improve the lot of any Nicaraguan? I AM Nicaraguan, thank you very much. AND, I've done quite a bit. If you want details, you'll just have to pm me.
The point of this whole thing was to stop the speculating and guessing about Ken AND Marty and their lives; Marty is still alive and having to deal with this. Just let Ken Kinzel, and now, the baby, rest in peace.
You don't have to be a
You don't have to be a psychiatrist to recognize anger and defensiveness. I do accept your apology about the baby comment, though. The point that I was trying to make was that the infant mortality rate in Nicaragua is high enough without having other negative parental issues. And, while the death of this child is sad enough, many other children are born in much more tenuous circumstances, with less available resources. There is a difference between stating a fact and spewing venom. Spewing venom would be to call her "Una puta mercernaria" as Ken's landlady reportedly did. I made no value judgments, merely asked if the contributing factors surrounding this particular child's situation merited any special notice or consideration. The "What have you done for.." were rhetorical questions. I don't care that you consider yourself a Nicaraguan. According to your bio you haven't lived here since 1974, and only returned for the first time two years ago for a visit. Saying you are a Nicaraguan is like saying Bush is a patriot. For whatever you have done for Nicaragua and her people I do thank you. If you want us to know what you have done just put it in your blog or bio, not in a pm. I do not care to interact with you any further, and will not reply to your posts.
Thank
goodness!
reminds me
of my ex mother in law
What speculation?
You continue to tell "us" to stick to the facts, not offer opinion, ... Well, opinion labeled as opinion seems fine.
If there is some particular "speculation" you disagree with, let's talk about it and hopefully resolve it or be able to say it can't be resolved. There is a lot more information from direct interaction with people involved that hasn't been presented here but could be if that resolves something.
A lot of lives have been effected directly plus the image of Nicaragua itself has been tarnished. This site is here to help people decided if they want to live here and, if they do, to better deal with living here. Part of that is to prevent what happened to Ken from happening again. The way we can do that is to educate ourselves.
I have been asked many times if what happened to Ken was "typical" and if there was something that he did wrong/should have done different. Those discussions have been one-to-one and have helped people better understand the situation. To me, that is "necessary education".
As for Ken, Marty, the baby and the rest of the players, there is still legal action going on. Until that is complete suggesting it is time to "rest in peace" is rather premature.
Death of any child
is a sad thing. Kudos on an excellent post and an excellent reply to Mrs. Moore.
Cathy, well said
Thank you, Cathy for a little perspective and appropriate outrage.
Tony
thanks cmoore56
for being a voice of reason. When Marty asked in mid-May for help locating Ken when he had disappeared, I don't think that was an open invitation for people who didn't know him or her to psycho-analize him, dissect their marriage, or make wild speculations on all kinds of things.
No matter how you look at this, it's a tragedy for all involved. Ken is dead, Marty is consumed by grief, KKHT's life is ruined, her family humiliated, and the baby is dead.
Regardless of what happens in the trial, there is nothing to celebrate. It's all a great loss.
I agree with you. Can we let Ken rest in peace?
When commenting or posting on sites such as this one,
one has to be prepared that some other posters will be skeptical, critical and even cynical about our comments.
You wrote: “When Marty asked in mid-May for help locating Ken when he had disappeared, I don't think that was an open invitation for people who didn't know him or her to psycho-analyze him, dissect their marriage, or make wild speculations on all kinds of things.” I tend to disagree with that statement. Marty did a fine job of “stirring the pot” on this site.
When Marty initially asked for help, many members of this site tried to help in any manner they were able to help. They went out of their way to gather information that they thought could be of help in locating Ken. They spent time, money and invested substantial efforts to help out. Some of that information discovered did not match the information provided by Marty. It was only after it became apparent that Marty was less than forthcoming, they became suspicious and began to doubt her motives. Obviously some of the doubts remain to this day.
In my opinion the people that actively searched for Ken and worked to find out about his whereabouts have every right to voice their opinions. The fact that Marty and her moral support team are uncomfortable with these questions makes these unanswered questions even more relevant.
Again,
stick with the facts. Opinions are one thing, and facts are another. Stick with the facts. That's all.
Say what
What does this comment have to do with what you responded to? Too much FDC?
Why don't you read your own post -
Quote #1: "Was NicaLiving a questionable news source? Or, did it just ask questions? I think we did a good job of responding and collection."
Quote #2: "When you say something wrong, someone calls you on it and their position gets as much coverage as the original article."
That's what you said, and THAT'S what I was responding to. As to your comment on FDC, I'm guessing you were trying to be funny. Guess what? You weren't. Stick to facts, not fantasy.
Oh
Well, once again, you seem to have missed on your response. I assume you are saying that we didn't do a good job. If that is the case, how about pointing out where we were off base.
Much of what you read here (not just in this thread, BTW) came from first-hand sources including Marty and the Estelí police. Some of the sources asked to not be identified. At least in the cases where I posted something from an unattributed source, I either verified the information from another source or at least looked for any hidden motives. Much information was not posted by me because it failed the impartiality test.
facts please
HI, Who says that "the reporter is a friend of Ken's friend Lillian"? The reporter or Lillian? Please clarify.
The reporter
When he called me asking if I would meet with him that is what he told me.
And how did the chat boards
And how did the chat boards "spin out of control?" Ah, the bastard paprazzi.
Um, yeah
I was previously asked to "cover Estelí" for the Tico Times. I asked if the Nicaragua version was as inaccurate as the Costa Rica version and, well, I didn't get "the job". Fine with me.
Anyway, long ago I learned that while print media is good for some things, coverage of something like this is not where it shines. Your question, for example, is a good one but one shot in print doesn't address that.
In addition, the statement that Marty said they were going to make the marriage work is interesting, considering Marty told me that they were getting divorced.
The whole story of Ken and everyone still just doesn't fit together. I don't know if we will ever know "the facts behind the rumors" but I am pretty sure there are some big pieces of the story still missing.
Well, at least you can look
Well, at least you can look yourself in the mirror. I can't imagine a staff writer for that rag making more than a buck or two anyway - I don't know why you'd even consider going from Editor in Chief from a US mag to a staff writer for a birg cage liner company anyway. Good call.
Well, I have Minister of Disinformation stuff to take care of back at the lair. I'll catch ya later.
Well,
according to someone who knew him (I'm quoting from just down this same page): "As someone who worked with Ken in those years, I prefer to remember him in that light. Not as the Ken, who drank and who for some reason or another, slipped, got seduced by the fantasy of a dark-skinned young lover and a new life. The Ken of the last six months, who may be the Ken you met or saw, was not the Ken I knew and worked closely with. It's a shame you never met. He was a gentle soul, a good man, a friend to all people. Sadly, I think that goodness in him, that gullibility you may say, might have played a part in his demise. As a Quaker, he no doubt saw the goodness in Kiutza, and her cohorts, as well as the physical attraction."
It's a real shame that they
It's a real shame that they prefer to remember him in a particular way, instead of accepting Ken for/as Ken. People want to customize everyting about their lives, even the people in them, so sad.
Seems to me
Marty sure did a lot of "customizing".... The way the story kept changing and all....
In addition, it's nice to see that she apprechiated all the thoughts, efforts and help by some members of this board... Wasn't that a nice "Thank You" message she posted?
Well, ya know, we're just
Well, ya know, we're just polite folk, and we're just glad we could help. We don't need a nice thank you letter. Ken knows, so that's what's important.
Chainsaw ?
Was he definitely dismembered with a chainsaw?
As Phil once pointed out Nicaraguans don't even use chainsaws on trees and, without wanting to descend into the macabre, a machete would be much better for this sort of thing.
Very odd.
Motosierra
What I heard on the radio was motosierra and I have never seen anyone wave around the murder weapon. While the word is used for a chainsaw it is also correct for any "power saw". I had always assumed either a circular or reciprocating saw.
You can buy chain saws here but the common way to cut down a tree is with a machete. So, it one was involved, Ken would likely to have been the owner.
The use of a chainsaw where Ken lived would make zero sense, however. The house is attached to others on either side and is only about 15 feet wide. Across the street is a 24-hour vet and some other businesses where the owners live in the same space.
From Marty, Ken's widow
Marty has asked that this be published wherever possible.
I am shocked that mainstream media would rely on rumors and lies to tarnish the image of Ken Kinzel. There is absolutely no basis in fact for such accusations, which have now been picked up by media around the world. Why doesn't the media get some background information before writing such things of a man who cannot defend himself?
Ken Kinzel was a Quaker for many years. Nonviolence was his credo. All his friends know this. He spent many years volunteering and working for peace and justice. He loved Nicaragua and its people, and wanted to live a simple life in solidarity. He had been a loyal and devoted husband up until this time. His wife was still working in the States, but was to join him at their farm in Miraflor. This left him alone for extended times and vulnerable.
This woman was brought to him and introduced as a Spanish tutor on December 2nd, 2006, as a 21-yr old college student with the last name Teycker. She brought her 2-yr old with her, and allowed the baby to suckle at her breast in front of Kinzel. He began to believe he had missed something by never having a child of his own. He was very distraught over the developing situation, because he loved his wife as well. He tried to break off the relationship several times. But she kept coming back. She did whatever it took to keep him in her clutches. Once he was told she was pregnant, he wanted to take full responsibility for her and the child. She told him she wanted an abortion, which left him very distraught, but something made her change her mind. He was very concerned with having her eat a healthy diet, so that she would have a healthy baby. He cooked, he did the dishes, he waited on her.
She insisted on the residence in town where she would have access to him, without others interfering ( his apt. was in a family compound). She pushed him to divorce his wife. She pushed him for money. Numerous friends knew he was being set-up and used from the start. The girl (and her friends) capitalized on his vulnerability. Physically, she is a large and strong, likely as strong as Kinzel, not the delicate pregnant girl she has been painted to be.
Ken Kinzel was a naive and gullible Gringo, who could minimally speak the language. This was not the first Gringo for this girl. The more likely scenario is that Kinzel was physically abused by the girl (he was seen with a black eye several weeks prior). Has anybody ever seen her with bruises? Her family lived closeby. She could easily leave if she did not want to be there. Maybe he thought he could tame this sociopath with his non-violent philosophy. But he didn't do it fast enough.
Ultimately, he was manipulated, used, bilked of his readily available assets, then shot and mercilessly slaughtered, whereupon the girl quickly proceeded to try and liquidate his remaining possessions.
Get the facts. Then speak in the cause of justice.
thank you
Marty Jo Johnson, Ken's widow.
two questions
Please convey my heartfelt sympathy. Even I, a stranger, on reading of this tragedy, can feel some of the pain & anguish that those who love Ken must feel.
My questions relate to a recent article in El Nuevo Diario of 13 Junio 2007, by Máximo Rugama, titled, "Rara visita de ex esposa de gringo asesinado" "... la señora Martha Hoss Johnson, ex esposa del norteamericano Kenneth Augustus Kinzel (Jr.), supuestamente asesinado ... por una adolescente esteliana, realizó una corta visita a (Esteli), y se sabe que se entrevistó con la supuesta autora del crimen."
Is it true, did Ken's wife Marty visit his 17-year-old 'mistress' and alleged killer, Kiutza, a week ago? Did it help?
That is a very good
That is a very good question. I would have loved to have been a fly on the wall.
Fyl, what's la palabra en la calle?
No idea
I heard the rumor Marty was here but that was from someone reading the END article. I didn't know she was coming and, in fact, I had been told she flatly refused to come.
There has been zero words locally about it which is pretty strange as I regularly talk to a few people that seem to know "everything" that is going on here.
My condolences
Hello Marty:
I am very sorry for your lost, I met Ken once, he went to my legal office in Managua, and told me about his projects.
Please forgive my delay to send you my condolences.
Paul Tiffer
This message is for Marty -
Again, please know that my thoughts and prayers are with you and your family. When you first posted on this board, I could feel the desperation and pain in posting on such a public forum. If there's anything I can do for you, please let me know. Fyl, please pass this along to Marty. Thanks.
Kinda sounds like the guy in jail for murder from SJDS
Lets see if justice is done in this case....I doubt it though. Seems like we are second class people here just like the so called wetbacks in the U.S. we will see I guess. my heart and soul hurt.
LLores
Is it just me or is anyone else confused?
Let me start by saying that I an very sorry for Ken Kinzel.
Here is what confuses me:
Supposedly Ken had a bank account of $ 850.000,--. Not exactly chicken feed...
Here is a post from Marty saying they had no real money and she had to work so they could support themself
---------------------------
you don't have the whole story.. Submitted by Marty108 on 22 May, 2007 - 14:15. We were together for over a month at the beginning of this year...before I returned to the States to train for health care work, so that I could support us. He was going to work on the farm, I was going to provide the income, toggling back and forth between the States and Nica until we had a nest egg. Prior to that, I was too busy earning a living to spend time on websites. He found the farm and bought it. If you knew me, you would know I'm crazy about Ken. I WISH he just needed to get away for awhile..that would be a best case scenario. Evidence is not pointing that way...we were in touch multiple times per day viz text msg. before this. The police are heavily involved...and we need all the help we can get.
----------------
I sure wish someone could explain what's happening....
don't believe everything you read in the papers
Ken did not have that much money in the bank here or anywhere. When he came he all he had was some money from the sale of his deceased mother's house, around $ 110,000 dollars. He had already put way too much into that little piece of land in Miraflor and into Kiutza and was running low. He commented that to me over pizza on April 20th when he had just come back from CR to renew his visa. In fact, he was already looking for other investors to develop the land and cabins.
When I saw that business about $ 850,000 I thought "what a joke. Ken would have thought he'd died and gone to heaven if he had that much money in the bank." Even if we divide that amount by 18.25 (maybe they were referring to cordobas) it's still way too high.
Since there is bank confidentiality in this country called sigilio bancario, no one can find out that information without a court order. No court order has been issued, so this is all speculation.
The other thing the papers had said is that he received monthly social security checks. Ken was only 52. A long way from getting those checks.
So don't believe everything you read in the papers.
Follow the money...That's
Follow the money...
That's all I have to say.
St. Petersburg TImes story
Here is a link to a well-writen story dated 5/31/07 about Ken in the St. Petersburg Times: http://www.sptimes.com/2007/05/31/Southpinellas/Peaceful_man_met_a_vi.sh...
According to the story, he
According to the story, he "disappeared" May 18th. Marty was looking for him on the 17th.
http://www.nicaliving.com/node/9369
On May 17th, Marty said she had heard from him one week ago, but on May 21st, she said he had been missing since April 13th.
Things that make you go hmmmmm...
CSI: ESTELI
real mysteries to solve
The confusion on dates was likely a stress related substitution of April for May. Given that Marty's worst fears were actually true, it would seem understandable that she would have been under significant stress when trying to find out what happened to Ken and where he was. It's easy to make minor mistakes and mis-state dates when under such stress.
I understand the desire to try and make sense of this horrific situation and the need to find someone other than the 17 yr old pregnant girl responsible, but you have been watching too much crime TV if you think Marty was in any way involved.
It seems to me that it is quite convenient that a 17 yr old is confessing to this crime, given her relative protection in the legal system due to her age. Why did she confess so quickly? I would like to know who else is involved in this murder and why. The story about Ken being abusive and threatening to kill her unborn child makes no sense whatsoever given Ken's background and beliefs.
Using a chainsaw to dismember and dispose of Ken's body and then scattering it in 4 different locations is phenomenally violent and premeditated- this is something that one would have to be quite hardened and/or psychotic to accomplish. There is much more to this than meets the eye and the "poor 17 year old pregant girl murders her 52 year old abusive gringo lover" story is a total decoy as far as I can see. Unfortunately the press is eating it up. Once people's emotions of fear and revulsion are triggered by this disgusting story their rational thinking centers are sent on vacation- a fact that is certainly known to whoever cooked up this whole thing, imho. I pray that Ken's spirit is in the light, and that the truth of all that led up to this will come to light, and for healing to all who are and have been touched by the darkness of this unspeakably sad situation.
I am not accusing Marty of
I am not accusing Marty of chopping her husband up. We all know she was in the mountains ;) I am saying I think she knows more than she's saying. She even stated so earlier "Information leads us to believe Ken is being kept somewhere" in addition to two versions of many other details.
Well guess what, she came here and asked for help. We reached out (geniunely) to help her. So we are interested and invited. So there.
And I agree with you - the crime is beyond her (the Nica's) maturity.
keep the facts straight, please
Hey Thunderdial, the node you give us says that she last heard from him "approx. a week ago" and that was dated May 17th, so approximately a week before that would be the 13th. No where did I see April 13th mentioned.
If you swear to that, please point us in the right direction to show us where she actually said that.