La Pensionada Rentista ripoff

Submitted by MNelson on 26 September, 2006 - 10:40.

This year we sent a container of our household goods and a car to Nicaragua.

We had jumped through all the hoops to qualify forPensionada status. Four trips to the Nicaraguan Consulate with Spanish translators along, telephone calls to the Miami Consulate, review of all International Living LIterature, etc.

We our stuff arrived we had to pay duty on household goods valued over $2000 (we had been mislead, and INTUR still misleads people, into believing the limit for retirees is $10,000).

INTUR last week says a retiree can "import a car duty free every year." (check their web page!)

We learned that the car had to be valued less than $10,000 ... BY THEM! We paid $8000 for a used Suzuki in Los Angeles but they valued it using their "Blackbook" at $16000 and then added the cost of the container, $5500, for a total value of $21,500. We were faced with import duty on $11,500 for the car alone!

Through bribes we ended up paying close to $5000 in import taxes we thought would be zero.

Has anyone else had this experience recently?

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This guy doesn't seem to be

Submitted by haircuttingcowboy on 27 September, 2006 - 15:14.

This guy doesn't seem to be lying. And he is sharing his experience and asking if others have had a similar experience. International Living is bad news and this guy should have done much more (WAY more)due dilligence, but he didn't. He paid somebody in Nic. five K, so that's good. Why do many feel that they need to jump his a**? Can't a fellow share his experience and ask a valid question? Christ, some are being rather obtuse.

Agree

Submitted by Huehuete Bob on 27 September, 2006 - 17:18.

I finally agree with you on something, Haircut.

Canta no LLores

And foul

Submitted by se_vnt3 on 27 September, 2006 - 15:29.

and just plain old mean, rude, nasty, stinky-attitudish, sucky, and big-headed.

Who’s to say you’re immune from making the same error? Plainly you're far from better.

- "If you obey all the rules, you miss all the fun" Katherine Hepburn

No, no, no..

Submitted by AdamAnt on 27 September, 2006 - 15:34.

not the original post my friends. Read down to nicawannabe at 4:20. Original poster was fine. It's pissypants down below that got the fire fueled.

pissypants

Submitted by dirtbag on 27 September, 2006 - 17:36.

might have been on a rant..he's entitled to be ...what it seems like Scared. It would be nice if the original post had a few more 'Nica In Country comments. allthough as seems par for the course on N.L. we have had a cross-section of varied comments.

OOPS

Submitted by Huehuete Bob on 27 September, 2006 - 17:34.

Sorry, I see I even said something nasty. These posts just seem to go in all directions sometimes.

Canta no LLores

If the right to rant is there...

Submitted by AdamAnt on 28 September, 2006 - 09:23.

so is the right to reply to the rant, correct? I think it's called venting on both sides.

Good one AdamAnt

Submitted by se_vnt3 on 28 September, 2006 - 13:53.

and very honest too.

- "If you obey all the rules, you miss all the fun" Katherine Hepburn

rule and costs

Submitted by dirtbag on 27 September, 2006 - 08:53.

of retiring to Nicaragua, sounds like a bit of a "moving target" excuse the pun...only how do you go about not being the target. It seems you get what you deserve if you cheat..in any country. I still am not sure what was wrong in bringing in a vehicle if prepared to pay the proper duty (As in legitimate Retiree rules) Expectations of potential lawsuits for property rights compared with North American and Euro systems is a whole different topic, none the less seems more risky! hopefully common sense and following the rules again might help. There are plenty, helpful comments on such topics and references on N.L (Past Discussions etc)

Sorry for your troubles...

Submitted by no longer registered on 27 September, 2006 - 06:14.

BUT when I first read your post last nite, I held my tongue. This morning I'll be a little more polite but some things in your post immediately jumped out at me:

  • International Living. For crying out loud. It's nothing more than a sleazy real estate firm now
  • Intur. I personally know each and every one of the hard-working people that work on residency. They do good work.
  • You brought a vehicle to Nicaragua? Did you ever think to READ Nicaliving before you pulled this bone-headed stunt or only AFTER you pulled this bone-headed stunt?

Again, I am sorry for your troubles but you "invited" some of them yourself, sir.

I have no (and do not want) control over what gets said on NicaLiving but I really don't appreciate using NicaLiving as a site for crying over spilled milk...

[/rant]

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"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion; he is not entitled to his own facts." ~~ Daniel Patrick Moynihan

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Hmmmmm

Submitted by sherrybrry on 26 September, 2006 - 20:45.

Well, I brought a container full of my household goods, including all my appliances, plumbing fixtures, audio-video equipment,linens, china, pots and pans, bicycle, really everything you can imagine a household would need. Mostly everything was brand new and in unopened boxes. The value was far far far over $10,000. I had dummied up invoices to make it look under $10,000 if it was necessary, but my customers agent in Managua told me it wouldn´t be necessary, and it wasn´t. I also had brought in the same container a used vehicle. I had doctored the sales price to make it look like it was under $10,000. Don´t ask me how, but I did not pay a penny!!! Perhaps it was the agent I used '' I have no idea. She was very specific as to how I should list all my items. Maybe your paperwork was different.

Your good experience

Submitted by MNelson on 27 September, 2006 - 09:42.

We did not dummy up anything, staid within the INTUR guideplines,and followed (to the letter) the requirements of our shipper, Global Freight, out of Miami. Incidentally I would recommend Global for great door to door service at a very low cost (Riverside, California to Iguana for $5500 for a 40' container) They use the most reputable moving company in Nicaragua, Mudanzes Mundiales, and not a thing was broken or stolen. Polite, complete, efficient service all the way ... and deep apologies for the change in government rules.

I'm curious, Sherry, when did you ship your container? Who was your agent that helped?

Thanks.

Martin Nelson Hacienda Iguana Playa and Resort SKYPE: QWLCrew

Shipping experience

Submitted by sherrybrry on 27 September, 2006 - 15:44.

I think I shipped it in April. It went to Guatemala, which was the only bad part about the experience. My agent in California said it was common to do it. And if everything had gone exactly as planned, the timing of the arrival of the container in managua would have coincided perfectly with a visit that I already had planned. however, dealilng with Guatemala was a complete pain -- one thing after the other trying to get the container to Managua. The agent here in Nicaragua was Sonia Vigil '' Port International S.A.

That helps explain the problem

Submitted by fyl on 27 September, 2006 - 07:23.

You just helped document why Nicaragua no longer accepts invoices for car prices but, instead, uses its own rules.

The most likely explanation is that some of the money you paid your customs broker (I assume you mean broker) bribed someone in customs. So, you got away with abusing the system and, since then, the government has decided to do some clean-up.

Well, um, ...

Submitted by fyl on 26 September, 2006 - 17:24.

Sorry that you had a bad experience of helping the Nicaraguan government make more money. But, this is why we keep saying you should get rid of your stuff, move here and buy what you need. It is just easier.

While the Nicaragua end seems to be more subject to change, you always have the potential of these sorts of problems. For example, let's say you wanted to import your Nicaragua car into California. Instead of taxes you will be looking at emission system changes and probably bumper changes.

As for Nicaragua government web pages, most are out of date. If you really want to know something, ask about three persons working for the appropriate agency. If you get the same answer three times there is a fair chance you will get the same answer when transaction time comes.

Some things, however, are not "deregulated". It was some years ago that Nicaragua (and Costa Rica) went to them deciding what a car was worth. This was because all too many people were importing with "adjusted" paperwork. In addition, what a car is worth in the US is not going to be the same as what it is worth here.

Value of the car

Submitted by MNelson on 26 September, 2006 - 17:54.

I got a pretty good deal on the Suzuki... and I knew it had not been driven on the rough Nicaragua off road roads! It's wholsale value in the US was about $8500, I paid $8000 plus tax and added stuff I thought I would need but couldn't get there ... a large refrigerator supported by a second battery system to get cold stuff from Rivas to Iguana (an hour plus), roof carrier, brush guards, etc. The same car with about the same mileage (and without the extras) was advertised in La Prensa for $9000. $16,000 was way out of line!!!

Incidentally, Suzuki's are selling like hotcakes in Nicaragua now. Favorites are Pradas and Mitsubishi's but really expensive.

Thanks for all your responses and support. I have fired off e-mails to La Prensa ... looking for how to contact Ministro de Hacienda y credito publico.

Warmly,

Martin Nelson Hacienda Iguana Playa and Resort SKYPE: QWLCrew

If I was you

Submitted by WalterG on 26 September, 2006 - 15:51.

I would take the whole issue with places and names, write an article and take it to "La Prensa" Im pretty sure they will publish it,knowing that this kind of attitude hurt investments thus hurting the local economy.Make a big issue, file a complaint at "Ministro de Hacienda y Credito Publico " also the American embassy.

I second that

Submitted by se_vnt3 on 26 September, 2006 - 16:17.

Make them understand how much they can and can not get away with when it comes to you. It wouldn't surprise me if that's what they'd like to know for themselves. The ball's still in your court.

- "If you obey all the rules, you miss all the fun" Katherine Hepburn

I third that...

Submitted by Pompano Tom on 26 September, 2006 - 16:46.

Hopefully La Prensa will help expose the corruption that destroys Latin American countries far more than anything else....even more than Chavez and Ortega :-) . Nothing to lose.

What if

Submitted by Huehuete Bob on 26 September, 2006 - 16:23.

What if You purchase a car or household goods in Nic? They told me you could subrtact the taxes and import duties included in the cost....

Canta no LLores

ripoff and changes

Submitted by dirtbag on 26 September, 2006 - 15:15.

to the tax system. I can imagine how frustrating this was. you follow the rules and they change them on you. All that Real Estate Propaganda on Nicaragua sites "Welcome retirees to Nicaragua" I wonder if the changes have been udated on all these sites including the Government sponsered sites. Thanks for sharing this experience to potential property investors such as myself. One of the values of N.L..to hear from others and in your case a "Heads Up". Thanks.

i am sorry to hear that.....

Submitted by Che Guevara on 26 September, 2006 - 14:03.

did you think about asking an attorney?

Yes. Barrios is the firm

Submitted by MNelson on 26 September, 2006 - 14:20.

Yes. Barrios is the firm that told me the law was suspended last June. They also informed me that the law had been reinstated in August ... but neglected to say anything about the change in tax free limits.

Martin Nelson Hacienda Iguana Playa and Resort SKYPE: QWLCrew

welcome Back To

Submitted by se_vnt3 on 26 September, 2006 - 13:57.

REALITY

Nicaragua is keeping up somewhat, isn't it?

Sorry to hear about your misfortune. I've never had your type of experience but I always expect the worse ( and hope for the best ) anyway.

- "If you obey all the rules, you miss all the fun" Katherine Hepburn

Welcome to Nicaragua Reality "Brujul"

Submitted by Henrywayawaya on 26 September, 2006 - 17:55.

That's true I had the experience with Nicaraguan Custom Agents one rip me off them pass me off to another for him to get his bite "mordida" but I was waiting for him it didn't happen again. They Inflat the value of your vehicle them tell you that they can lower it for a fee from $US 15,000 to $US 7,000 but it will cost you $US 3,000 because I save you $US 8,000 and now your tax will only be on $US7,000. Write and open letter to "La Prensa" to "INTUR" to clarify the LAW that they are promoting for Investors, and Pensionados.

rip

Submitted by nicawannabee on 26 September, 2006 - 22:20.

You know, the more I dig into Nicaragua, the more I don't think I want to settle there. The fact that you can buy property and then someone can claim it and you have to defend yourself in court at great expense. And that could happen over and over again. Then the fact that you are guilty until proven innocent...WTF??? I think the negatives are beginning to overtake the positives. I think somebody in the government had better pull his head out of his ass and try to make it easy for us gringos to move there as pensionados. Right now, I'm ready to tell you folks to take your pissy, backwards-assed little country and shove it.

Thanks for reading, Richard

Can someone give

Submitted by Pinolero2 on 27 September, 2006 - 14:27.

This cry baby a lolypop to suck on.

And We are ready to tell you to Stay you cry baby A$$ where ever you are . We don't need idiots like yourself coming down here and giving good gringos a bad rep.

Like MA would say: Kizz My Gritts cry baby

FAP

I was thinking along those lines, too

Submitted by Former NL Member on 27 September, 2006 - 14:39.

"try to make it easy for us gringos to move there as pensionados," he said. That sounds selfish, arrogant, and presumptuous. Heck, the US system of retirement doesn't even make it easy to be a "pensionado". What makes foreigners think they deserve to be coddled by the Nicaraguan government? Why do people think any government is supposed to hold their hand all through life?

John

Submitted by Pinolero2 on 27 September, 2006 - 14:53.

It has been said enough here on Nicaliving some people just don't pay attention.

Do Your Freaking research , spend time in the country before you make a move.

The same rule applies when either/both importing a car, moving with things, DO YOUR RESEARCH.

Maybe Pensionado program, won't work to the best of your advantage,then go around it, apply for residency, once you become a resident you should be able to bring one car per household and all your household needs.

Go on the DGA website(Customs) try to gather as much info as necessary.

Heck even when allowed to bring a car and the so called Menaje for us Nicaraguan born, it's a long process involving proper paperwork,starting with a certified document from the Nica embassy in your respective state,listing everything that you would be bringing with you, this helps expedite ALL your stuff without any B.S from Customs.

Things can and will be as easy/complicated as one makes it to be.

Like Phil has said, if you are willing to trade "Money for time", don't bitch about it later then

FAP

My request:

Submitted by AdamAnt on 27 September, 2006 - 14:49.

All I'd like is a free ride. I'd like a free container with whatever I want in it to be shipped to wherever I want whenever I want. I'd like a free house, modern, wherever I want. There should be a fridge completely stocked with beer and all the food I need and a bar completely stocked with all the FDC I need and I want it to be refilled upon request. I'd like whatever women I want to come to my free house and do whatever I want whenever I want.

Only after these demands are met will I consider making Nica a better place by moving there. If not, Nica is on it's own.

I'm great and I deserve to be catered too forever!

I agree totally

Submitted by zenpilgrim on 27 September, 2006 - 14:53.

It's the least any gringo should expect.

Wow!

Submitted by sherrybrry on 27 September, 2006 - 14:21.

Sounds like YOU´RE the pissy one. There is title insurance for land, you know. And if sometone doesn´t bother to get it, that´s their own fault. People here are generally very happy '' both natives and etraneros '' The country is probably better off without you.

Wrong conclusions?

Submitted by fyl on 27 September, 2006 - 07:31.

Not sure where you come to these conclusions.

In Nicaragua, just like in the US, property ownership can be disputed. In fact, just like in the US, anyone can sue anyone for anything. And, sometimes, the person with the most money wins. For example, you can thank Carterphone for being able to plug non-telco supplied devices into your phone line in the US. But, AT&T sued Carterphone and while AT&T lost in court, Carterphone was long since out of business because it couldn't see its only product--telephone answering machines.

You are not guilty until proven innocent. That is the case in Costa Rica but not Nicaragua. But, in the case of personal injury, you are removed from society by the police until things are sorted out. Compare this to a DWI where you get tossed in jail over night before your court appearance.

Now, if you are someone who thinks the way it works in the US is right and anything different isn't, don't even bother coming to Nicaragua. You won't make it.

No deep pockets

Submitted by kristikuca on 27 September, 2006 - 06:33.

I have a feeling that most of this will not change until those who hold power over us realize that our pockets are not as deep as they think they are. When the retirees/escapees stop coming into the country solely because of the gringo fleecing, will it be noticed? Would there be an impact on the country if it was just too much of a hassle for foriegn nationals to immigrate there? Is there an estimate of how many Nicaraguans benefit finacially from an American family taking up residence in their neighborhood? OR Am I an uneducated egomaniac for thinking along these lines?

Richard, I harbor most of your thoughts in a very small place in my mind next to my most optimistic outlook on Nicaragua.

?

Submitted by FNLM on 27 September, 2006 - 06:46.

In general, does the population want us to live in Nicaragua or do they just want us to visit and spend our money here?

South Florida, Nicaragua

Submitted by no longer registered on 27 September, 2006 - 06:53.

If you want to live in a gated community a la South Florida with a bunch of other gringos, I personally don't think any Nicaraguan will have one little bit of care or concern.

If you live IN NICARAGUA, with Nicaraguans as most of us here on NL, I think they like having us around. Speaking only for myself, I think there's high entertainment "value" to Nicas when a gringo moves into the barrio! ;~/

entertainment value

Submitted by Huehuete Bob on 27 September, 2006 - 09:12.

Yup, a great source of entertainment...especially if you are a hot blooded Sicilian american Gemini like me. They love to see me getting upset and angry and yelling about things here in Nic. What they dont know is that one minute later I just dont care anymore.

Canta no LLores

Ok

Submitted by Huehuete Bob on 27 September, 2006 - 00:26.

Good bye Richard Sorry to see you go. Just dont go away angry my friend, Just go away.

Canta no LLores

I am now standing...

Submitted by AdamAnt on 27 September, 2006 - 10:32.

and clapping at both fyl and HB's comments.

It's like tv or radio, if you don't like what's on don't bitch about it, just don't watch/listen.

my own damned fault

Submitted by nicawannabee on 27 September, 2006 - 15:16.

I'm just mad at myself for having spent so much time learning about Nica only to come to the conclusion that it's not where I want to spend the rest of my days. A friend of mine put it so well when he said "poor people have poor ways". And it's those poor ways that will keep Nica knuckled under for a long time into the future. Hell, you've been free of the grasp of Communism for 16 years. 16 years in which to do something with the country but all I see is poverty, graft and corruption.

I'm mad because all I want is a level playing field and I don't see that happening in Nica. I have some money to start a business and employ people there, but I see too many gringos being taken advantage of. I'm not looking for a free lunch, just an opportunity to make a difference.

On a brighter note, I can offer you an uplifting National Motto..... "Hey, we're not as poor as Haiti"

Thanks for reading, Richard.

Sorry NicaLandia isn't for you...

Submitted by no longer registered on 27 September, 2006 - 23:46.

It's not for everyone. I've had the same reaction from family and friends since when I was living in civilized Costa Rica. I've made converts tho, but they usually come down here and see the place before they look for the next place.

As I said to you on PM, I was and AM looking forward to meeting you one day soon...

learning curve

Submitted by Huehuete Bob on 27 September, 2006 - 17:27.

Its just a learning curve. Many have had problems, lost money etc here (some more,some less). But dont forget that this IS a different country and you need to learn the ropes. Its not for everyone so if you have decided not to persist, that is fine. And good luck to you with any other plans you may have.

Canta no LLores

You’re entitled

Submitted by se_vnt3 on 27 September, 2006 - 15:44.

to your own opinion also, Richard.

It’s good you made your decision now than ( to much ) later, as could be MNelson’s case. Everything’s not for everyone and I’m happy you found out what is or isn’t for you on time. MNelson, you can learn from Richard’s experience as he has from yours - it's what NL's for: Make information on Nicaragua available, particularly to English-speaking people who have or will move there.

- "If you obey all the rules, you miss all the fun" Katherine Hepburn