People living in dumps and 11 year old prostitutes..

Help me....

I get news feeds about Nica. One of them was this:

http://www.katu.com/stories/88219.html

It describes a "reporter" who is going to Nicaragua with 30 other women to take "supplies" to a dump....what ever that means....because people live off of the dump and sell little 11 year old girls into prostitution. This is all "funded" by an institution called Forward Edge. Forward Edge is an evangelical organization whose website spends most of their efforts asking for donations. Ok...I won't go there.

Does anyone living in Nicaragua know of, or have witnessed, or has any knowledge of people living off of dumps or selling 11 year old girls into prostitution?

Those of you who live in Nicaragua...please help me understand the reality of Nicaragua.

OK... I will go there...Stories like this bring out the worst in America (USA) sensationalist journalism and evangelical sh*t that sends hordes of bible thumping do gooders that are only interested in short term press releases and feel good sermons when they get back home. How do real Nicaraguans feel about these evangilicals? Do they (evangilcals) do any real long term good?

I guess what upsets me is this blatant self promotion and the negative image that is presented about Nicaragua, and it is all cloaked in the purity of Christianity.

Once again, I have posted something that I will probably regret.

Any comments?

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I saw a bumper sticker in

I saw a bumper sticker in Managua Friday to the effect of "I was born Catholic, and will die a Catholic. I will never convert, please don't insist."

now in Minnisota!

Shades of Ricardo Arjona's song "Si el Norte fuera el Sur"

"Aug. 15, 2006, 4:58PM Employer advises Dumpster-diving for axed workers

Reuters News Service

NEW YORK - Bankrupt Northwest Airlines Corp. advised workers to fish in the trash for things they like or take their dates for a walk in the woods in a move to help workers facing the ax to save money.

The No. 5 U.S. carrier, which has slashed most employees' pay and is looking to cut jobs as it prepares to exit bankruptcy, put the tips in a booklet handed out to about 50 workers and posted for a time on its employee Web site.

The section, entitled "101 ways to save money," does not feature in new versions of the booklet or the Web site.

Northwest spokesman Roman Blahoski said some employees who received the handbook had taken issue with a couple of the items. "We agree that some of these suggestions and tips ... were a bit insensitive," Blahoski told Reuters.

The four-page booklet, "Preparing for a Financial Setback" contained suggestions such as shopping in thrift stores, taking "a date for a walk along the beach or in the woods" and not being "shy about pulling something you like out of the trash."

The booklet was part of a 150-page packet to ground workers, such as baggage handlers, whose jobs will likely be cut after their union agreed to allow the airline to outsource some of their work, Blahoski said.

Prepared with the help of an outside company, the booklet encourages employees to manage their money better and prepare for financial emergencies.

"If you have saved some money, pat yourself on the back -- you deserve it," the booklet reads. "Take out only what you need and spend prudently."

como todo buen piloto . . . mujeriego y borracho.

Garbage dumping in Minnesota

Well up here the garbage is generally frozen for about six months of the year, so you don't get the same biological side effects as in say, Managua. And in the summer, dumpster diving is the closest substitute to ice fishing. So you can see, its a cultural tradition - or is it genetic?

Y volando un avion tambien

mientras borracho y mujeriando???

Jesús nos cuide a todos.

- yesterday's underdog is today's champion

The compassionate North American-style response

to situations like this seems be to produce a video or pamphlet showing them how to find the most nutritious food in the dump, how to make a comfortable bed out of trash, and such. In other words, to enable people to MAINTAIN the lifestyle, not to find a better one.

Canada

Freegans

for fun and profit!

close the bad dump, that's

close the bad dump, that's polluting the lake creating a proper dump with waste management and recycling . . . it's a path to a solution

or maybe you could find them all an office job ; )

Our landfill engineers do OK, no reason with training, those folks couldn't make a serious livelihood from the resource.

Isn't this a distortion?

I haven't heard anybody on this site, with any kind of political perspective, suggest they want to see this "lifestyle" maintained. I suppose there may be someone suggesting ways to make the best of a bad situation. But I personally saw North Americans I know you would call "liberal" totally focusing on how to help Managua dump-dwellers find a better way of life. So I don't understand this cheap shot. If anything I'd like to hear how those who are so opposed to "big government" and "socialism" explain why the "free market" hasn't yet found the solution?

Not a cheap shot

I wasn't assigning "-isms" to the situation. I should have typed [/sarcasm] before and after, but yes an alarming number of gringos seek to KEEP dumpster divers in the dump as evidenced by the links I posted. I saw one from England, too.

i was working in a sweat shop today.

one liberal (driving a lexus suv) stopped by and said my face was too red that i needed to stop. and yet again, liberals stopping industry.

(the sweat shop was outside, the water line to the house sprung a leak.)

No problema

Sorry I took it wrong. I agree with Arlington's approach that we should figure out ways to do away with dumps - particularly Managua's - and maybe we can find more meaningful recycling rather than dumpster diving possibilities for people.

Shoe Shiners & Recyclers

Many children from ages 5+ shine shoes around Puerto Cabezas.

The "shoeshine boys" are usually carrying a plastic bag and deposit aluminum cans picked up from the streets and garbage bins to sell to recyclers here in Port.

I call the kids Double Entrepreneurs.

Miskito Alan &#174

was that the rotarians from dist 5890?

and are you calling them liberal?

I'll be a witness...

I have toured the Managua dump a couple times. It's my understanding that about 3000 families, live in and work that dump. I am also told that at one time or another almost every family has been offered a helping hand out of there.

Many that take this offer of help wind up returning after some period time. That is because they can earn more money working the dump than by doing other jobs, and for other various reasons (ie... it's easier to take a man out of a dump than it is to take the dump out of a man).

While the adults choose to live there, the children do not. I know specifically of one girl (just 13 years old) who lives there and is prostituted. She is also HIV positive. She copes by sniffing glue...I hope this answers you question.

Disclaimer - I have absolutely no affliation with or knowledge of the ministry in your article.

Although it's a serious subject...

I just can't resist. JR-possible coffee red alert

There's a whole lot of talk about men taking dumps here. Is this really appropriate?

"it's easier to take a man out of a dump than it is to take the dump out of a man".

i got nothin

but fiber.

I'll pass

on that subject!

More recent story

Thanks for the link . . .

Thanks for the link . . . it sounds like change is already underway.

Once more

to those who may think,my post are worth a damn; I’m thinking . . . . . . If Nicaragua would take the money they are giving away to foreigners – 16+ Cordobas-a-piece for every foreign "dollar" – and place it into a welfare system for the poor, while at the same time converging with international relations forces Nicaragua could make a new name for itself - and we can use accomplished excisemen over here too.

see this link . . .

http://www.pbs.org/opb/thenewheroes/meet/ruiz.html

It was a terrific program (series)

I don't know whether you

I don't know whether you mixed up exchange rate or whether that's what Nicaragua's global indebtedness works out to. There's more debt than what the IMF forgave. That was just a start.

What I do know is that our local dump's treasure (glass, plastic, tin, paper are sorted out at the home, making collection slighly more complicated but the pay off in recyclables is tremendous. Before we did this, on an assembly line, the bags were opened manually and the recyclable jewels removed. That low tech solution could work in Nicaragua as it seems they are finding some small payoff from the effort. Why wouldn't it may sense to help them at what they are already doing. And also to help increase the market for the same goods.

There isn't a corporation extant that doesn't uuse government to externalize part of their business. How many cars would GM sell if government didn't build roads.

http://www.witnessforpeace.org/sites/nica/noticias_062006.html

Gov't. help

The government doesn't build roads for GM it builds them because citizens want them and some in the US and Mexico are privately built toll roads. They do help GM by buying thousands of government vehicles.

That Peace Org sounds like a real group of retards. Talk about interfering. They are trying to interfere themselves. When they try to stop the free trade agreement, isn't that interfering? Why don't they go and pick on Chavez who directly interferes in several countries?

If the government didn't buy from private businesses,

They'd have to go into the car building business themselves. Voila! Socialism/Marxism/Communism!!! No wonder arlington is upset :-)

Out

How does it make sense to help them at what they are already doing? They’re only doing it in the hopes of finding a way out of their already desperate situation. They are looking for a way out.

I can't believe they wake up every day wondering how they can stay in that life they're living.

it makes sense to do it more efficiently . . .

it makes sense to do it more efficiently . . . we do the same thing here in parts of Canada with our refuse. It's a resource pile awaiting separation and extraction. Let's face it, we're wasteful. We spend energy mining metal and manufacturing glass and after a single use, in many cases, we bury it again. The other product that is so easy to make from that waste heap is compost, which could be contracted to farms for enriching the land. We need it here and they need it there. And composting need only be as complicated as having a tractor and an army of shovels.

Finding low tech products they coulld make in Nica is also not rocket science. Shredded plastics, rubber etc are turning up in products all over. If the plastic isn't clear, it's likely recycled. Most of the plastic in cars is not virgin.

We pay serious wages for what they are doing for scraps. They needed make so little if they were partners in the project. Landfilll management here is a career. There's no need to denigrate the task.

give it away, give it away, give it away, now

That's a sure fire way to increase the number of poor people, and perpetuate the poverty of those already poor.

any ideas?

any ideas?

I wish I had

I know what's never worked in the past won't suddenly start working any time soon.

A dude once suggested teaching a man to fish instead of just giving it away, now.

Thta was Felix Cigarman I think . . .

Thta was Felix Cigarman I think . . . give a man a fish, he'll eat today, teach him how to fish and he'll sit in a boat and smoke cigars and drink Flor de Caña all day ; )

I agree a handout won't do, but an infrastructure grant even to start a proper recycling composting program, and governmment guidance to find markets and product uses could work.

The pimping to the truck drivers is a result of their poverty, not their location necessarily. A rise in the importance (esteem) of what and how they're doing the work at the landfill would go a long way to ending the prostitution.

The people who work our landfills don't go home ashamed of the day spent in the trash, because they make a good wage for it. Finding value added in a dump isn't hard. We're doing it daily in North America. We stopped calling them dumps a decade ago in Canada.

I'll try to find the link but, there is a program in Peru doing basically what I suggested with the compost and it is a huge success. The labourers now have uniforms, boot, work gloves and are producing high quality compost for agriculture.

Attitude and perception are a huge part of the problem.

Self esteem and alternate income

Self esteem and alternate income would end prostitution. "Few" do it as anything other than a means of an income . . . so given an alternative . . .

I am seriously thinking I might be able to do or assist in starting something like the Peruvian project but it'd have to be a Nica initiative obviously . . . I couldn't imagine anything more rewarding . . .

Red Hot Chili Peppers

Realize I don't want to be a miser Confide wisely you'll be the wiser Young blood is the lovin' upriser How come everybody wanna keep it like the kaiser

I can't tell iff I'm a king pin or a pauper

Greedy little people in a sea of distress Keep your more to receive your less Unimpressed by material excess Love is free love me say hell yes

There's a river born to be a giver Keep you warm won't let you shiver His heart is never gonna wither Come on everybody time to deliver

I feel too ;-)

Hot Peppers

itself_vnt3,

I was having a little difficulty understanding your post and then I took a look at your profile and I'm afraid that I am still confused. You were born in Nicaragua but you prefer Chicago and New York?

What is itself_vnt3?

A relative I’m not aware of?

se_vnt3, like 73 :-).

I prefer Philadelphia and Chicago and between the two I can't decide which of them I prefer. I believe Chicago is what a tidy New York would be. I’m presently residing in Nicaragua although I grew up in the States - one of life's tasteless jokes.

I don't know. What is se_vnte?

I probably meant se_mismo_vnt3 or su_uno_mismo_vnt3

Only congratulating and participating

please

- yesterday's underdog is today's champion

I Thought:

Yesterday - You are a dog.

Today - You are a fire hydrant.

Miskito Alan &#174

one day you are the windshield.....

the next you are the bug.

What you got you got to give it to your brother

and music is my aeroplane.

Problem Is

Nicaragua is not giving away 16 Cordobas for every foreign dollar. It's the value of the cordoba vs. the US Dollar set by the Nicaraguan Central Bank.

Pete & John Have No Clue

You 2 guys are totally clueless about Se_Venta's subject points.

Also, Miskito Alan &#174 has no clues to her points either.

Clues:

My points are the subjects of this forum.

There are people living in dumps and 11 year old prostitutes in Nicaragua.

Apparently

There’s no distinction between ugly and pretty when Nicaragua’s welfare system for the rich relies on the poor.

Real Deal

Everyone should visit the Managua dump at least once. It's an excellent way in which to align ones moral compass. I close my eyes and I can see it as clear as day ... I took my friend Ramon from Esteli with me, his comment was "Nobody in Nicaragua can complain after seeing these children at this dump".

Does anyone living in

Does anyone living in Nicaragua know of, or have witnessed, or has any knowledge of people living off of dumps or selling 11 year old girls into prostitution?

Yes, like many other countries with extreme poverty, Nicaragua does have people who live off dumps. There is also a real problem with child prostitution. Unlike for individuals above the age of consent who chose to rent out their bodies, the authorities take a dim view towards child prostitution. The problem, like for many crimes in Nicaragua, is effective enforcement (catching those who do) and sometimes turning a blind eye when enforcing the law is not potentially lucrative (unlike traffic policing). I am not a regular reader of La Prensa, however, over the last year I have read several articles about individuals who have been caught (or are being persued) for sexual conduct with minors. It is heartbreaking when you read of a 12 year old girl who was sold by her family for sexual services for a few dollars and is pregnant.

The Political Constitution of Nicaragua, amongst other protections, defines the family as the fundamental nucleus of society and and obligates the State to provide various protections. Unfortunately, this as well as other guarantees of the Constitution are violated (or the Government fails in providing them) on a daily basis. This has provided fertile ground for religious groups of various brands.

Nicaragua has been traditionally Catholic, however most missionary groups are of one Protestant sect or another, and so there are some Catholics as well as the Catholic Church that feel threatened by this change of the demographics. In countries like Guatemala, during the last few years Evangelists have had a significant effect and last I heard, it was an almost 50/50 split between Evangelists and Catholics.

However, many Nicaraguans (both Catholics and non-Catholics) have a favorable impression. They see foreigners who come to Nicaragua on their own time, spending their own money, not on the regular tourist trail but in the more marginalized areas which are normally ignored and trying to help.

By the way not all evangelist missionaries are foreigners. There are a number of Nicaraguans who also dedicate themselves to trying to help their own. Complaints that I have heard though, is that an overdependency has developed on foreign help and that Nicaraguans of faith are not pulling their weight to trying to help others in the country. In other words, yes, I do think that the task of helping is exhausting, and that missionaries from wealthy countries to get a thrill out of feeling that they are helping, but I do not see this as being something sinister. If someone does collect money, buys a ticket to Nicaragua and spends their time and money helping the poor, they do deserve a pat on the back.

Having said that, I do not consider myself a very religious person and I do have a number of friends of greater conviction who say they pray for me.

My problem with most organized religion (despite the many good things it does) is what I perceive a disconnect between pragmatism and reality in the real world and uncompromising morality that is normally preached. For example, although the Constitution says that the State does not have an official religion, the relationship between the Catholic Church and the Government is a little too close for comfort. This has kept the Government from doing things that MUST be done to prevent future disasters, for example, providing a proper education in issues such as safe sex and family planning, because of religious doctrine that states that one should not be sexually active until marriage, then only faithfully with the spouse, and all children are a gift from God. As a result, Nicaraguan society, given it's sexual lifestyles, is very vulnerable to an explosion in STD's such as AIDS, as well as a huge baby boom particularly to the poorer parts of society. I believe I read that the population is expected to double by the year 2020 (to about 10 million). With the majority being born into poor families, who often force them to contribute to the family welfare by working (at the sacrifice of play and schooling), what kind of future is there for my country???

Yes it is real

My wife and I live in Managua with our two children. My wife goes into the dump almost everyday to feed several of the malnurished babies that live there. We are some of those evangelical do gooders. It's really too bad that you have such a negative outlook on such things. I agree there are many, perhaps the majority of religous organizations that operate out of self promotion, that is a shame and a missed target. But please try not to lump us all together. Though we are Christians and do believe in the Bible it is by no way a requirement for the work we do here. We also go to the village of Walakitang on the Rio Coco to bring food and supplies to a group of Miskitio there. We don't thump our Bibles there either. As far as short term press, anyone who lives here in Nicaragua knows nothing gets done in short term. Try paying your Fenosa bill. Thanks for your post, I am glad you did somehow get news of La Chureca and something within you stirred enough to ask a question. We have a few pics and some info at themustardseedmission.com if you have any more questions about the dump e-mail us and we will try to answer them for you.

Wow...

I read your posts and all of the links. I had no idea the situation was so terrible. Father Marco and the Rotarians have done a remarkable job. I apologize to anyone who was offended. Anyone who is doing anything to help these unfortunate people are to be commended.

Tom

Good on Ya Tom

No offense, just glad you care. Next time your in Managua e-mail us and we would love to take you into La Chureca and introduce you to some of the families.

Honestly,

I am not sure I could take it.

One more

Here is a link to a student group from my college that did see the situation at the dump and took action. I first came to Nicaragua with a Christian group that provides medical clinics, helps builds churches, and help the church leaders establish programs for the children in their communities. Now I come on my own, I have bought land north of Esteli and will live here. I agree you shouldn't "sound the trumpets" when you are trying to do good works, especially in the name of the Lord. But articles like that are useful when they get dialogues going and raise awareness. I have a personal ministry of bring baseball equipment to kids. If I didn't get the help and contributions from the churches I couldn't do it. Every cent goes to the kids. Read this article. I think you'll like the student's lack of Bible thumping attitude. www2.davidson.edu/news/dj_archives/03spr_matinitfaith-sidebar.asp