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somebody help me out here......Submitted by parrotheadnica on 12 June, 2006 - 11:29.
according to some who I believe are knowledgeable: my cuidador in san juan del sur had a son who was recently murdered in front of several people, who tackled the perp and turned him over to the police. He was held for a few days, then either just released (supposedly for 'lack of evidence') or was bailed out. My cuidador, who effectively has no money, went to Rivas to try to get some justice for this injustice. I am told that he has to pay the District Attorney (who was transferred, and the new transferee in was then transferred out). Now, I know here in the US, the DA prosecutes crimes, and is paid by the State, the county, the whatever political entity is that employs him. Am I to understand that it's not this way in Nica? I'm also told that although the perp did it, was seen and caught doing it in broad daylight, if my cuidador cannot hire someone and spend enough money, the perp's family (which apparently has enough money to have bailed him out for 30K cordobas) can overwhelm him with their greater ability to pay for his defense. WHAT? Am I just being naive to ask if this is crazy? scratching my head up here.... oh, and by the way, recently I was in a convenience store a little south of me in NH, and was perplexed by an odd odor of smoke in the store. while paying for my yucky convenience store purchase, i looked to my left, and there were - cigars, from the DR, from Honduras and....!! Nicaragua. WHAT? Torpedoes and something Indian or something like that - my memory can't dredge the name up. What's up with that? still scratching my head (and don't tell me I have fleas, please!) melanie ( categories: )
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a public thank you
to chele john for having gotten the scoop on the problem in sjds that i asked about, and sending me the account of what he was told. it's pretty tough hearing about things that go on down there, wondering, and not getting straight answers, so i really appreciated his letting me know (at least according to one person) what happened. melanie
What happened?
According to Chele John.
JE
Enquiring minds want to know.
Only congratulating and participating allowed. Feel/Dig? I just don't have the taste for hating.
well, the long and the short of it is...
my cuidador's son Danny tried to rip off someone, and beat him up badly. the next day, the guy saw Danny and shot him. apparently Danny does not have a good reputation (nor does the killer) but the feeling in town is that it was gang related, and now that it's over, it's over. Nothing more needs to be done. I had not been given enough information right after it happened, and reacted to the information I had - feeling like this just wasn't right. but now that I have a full picture of it (and incidentally, this version was verified by another friend of mine in sjds) I will chalk it up to something along the lines of Wild West justice. You beat me up, I blow your brains out. Walk away. If that's nica justice, and the authorities are not going to prosecute, what else is there to say? I'm actually okay with this, although sad for my cuidador, who is a good man. This shouldn't happen to any family, but it does. And life goes on.
Welcome to
TOMBSTONE, God I love it!
Here the police in the nights when two fellers get into a fight, make sure no weapons are used, no body else interferes, and the loser.....
Drops Jail
Lyin' Farmer John Wayne
If it's any consolation
it's also how "justice" is done in many parts of the US.
Only congratulating and participating allowed. Feel/Dig? I just don't have the taste for hating.
can you be a little clearer
I'm not sure what you want.
Are you trying to find out how Nica justice works or are you trying to do something to help the father whose son was killed...or both?
First off, there is no death penalty in Nicaragua. The most a person can be sentenced to is thirty years. That's it. Very few people, no matter what their crime, spend thirty years in jail.
Among the pueblos it is quite common for someone who has been convicted of murder to only spend six or eight years in jail and then get released.
The prison here is, well, third world. It only holds so many people and for some reason, people keep continuing to commit crimes so they do what any good prison does. Let prisoners out who have spent the most time behind bars to make room for freshly convicted prisoners.
Yes, money through lawyers will change hands and that can affect someones release date.
I hesitate to go into the specific "whys" concerning the death of the son who, you say, was killed in front of others. I keep reading your post and it sounds all second, third and fourth hand.
It's impossible to tell what is or isn't true...not that you are lying of course. But you did not talk to anyone yourself who says they saw the murder. When you say "knowledgeable" does that mean they saw the murder happen themselves?
If the person who did the killing has money, odds are that money helped them.
San Juan has their own DA who prosecutes criminal cases. It makes me question the information you are getting about the guy having to go to Rivas. Especially since my own lawyer had a meeting with the San Juan DA this very morning! No, I'm not in trouble but someone else is.
You are not being naive but you are learning that "justice" takes many forms and follows many different timetables in the world. Sometimes there just is no appeal process available even if someone feels the verdict is wrong.
Live your life accordingly. -smile-
trying to be clearer
Yes, my information is 2nd and 3rd hand because I am here in the States, and the person telling me all this is in sjds. So I do know that some of the information could by now be morphed away from the 'truth' of what happened.
But if I accept at face value what I was told, what I was trying to do was ask if this is the usual chain of events - particularly the part in which I was told that the police released the perp for 'lack of evidence'. My contact wrote me this:
"*listen to this: when somebody is murdered here, someone (like the victim's family) has to file a lawsuit, if they don't do that within 72 hours, the murderer walks, how about that in a country were most people earn less than they need to feed themselves? How are they supposed to pay for a lawyer and a better one than the murderer's family gets? Anyway, in this case he was bailed out before the 72 hours."
If this were a situation of something happening in town, to someone I didn't know, I'd be less involved emotionally. But it happened to my cuidador's son, and so I am wanting to understand this better. I don't care so much about death penalties, how much time a person serves, or what the prison conditions are like, but more how is it that the system can be as it has been described to me.
It may be that my cuidador didn't want to deal with the sjds DA - I didn't know there was one in town. Chele John: if you heard about this murder (as it sounds like you may have, if you are down there) write to me separately, please, so I can commmunicate more of this to you?
thanks for taking the time to respond.
Melanie
edited post
I just saw your pm to me so I'll respond there. Thanks for the additional information about what happened.
Fortunately
The Cigars are better than the system
cigars in NH
Melanie,
Where was this convenience store? I'll check it out and see what brands (and quality) they are.
as long as
As long as they were not next to the Philly Blunts.
If they were, I think the quality of the Nica Cigars was severely degraded
Click for Link
cigars in NH
it was the Citgo station off the Campton exit. End of the ramp, turn right, and then immediate right again. It's across from the Info booth. I found the note - they were Indian Head and Torpedo cigars. Close, sorta cigar.
Aw - Richard
Quit playing the "Yankee" in "New Hereford" and just go back to Tennessee or come to Nicaragua.
:-)
Miskito Alan ®
Huh?
That comment was, so, uh, obscure, that I just. don't. get. it. I must be missing something. Here I am asking for help about a legal issue, and so far nada. I made the mistake of posting about those danged seeeegars, and the posts are about them. Stupid me. How about some elucidation on the legal mess my cuidador has on his hands, from a long time resident of nicaland, por favor? Am I the only one who thinks this is awful?
What is Awful?
The cigars or my post or "zenpilgrim"?
"zenpilgrim" is a red-nek from the south USA (America) just like me and "Lyin' John Wayne".
"zenpilgrim" got up there with them Yankees and acquired all of these high quality habits; but, I would bet that he still has junked cars in his front yard and never leaves the house without a pair of jumper cables.
Miskito Alan ®
No junk cars in the front yard anymore...
but I never go anywhere without my jumper cables. And I think my coming up here brought some culture to the place (I never claimed it was an improvment though). Hell, they even carry grits in the supermarket now (took'em long enough).
And what high quality habits could I have picked up by coming up here...I mean, if's it's not FDC, then it's Jack Daniels (it was good enough for Frank Sinatra). God knows they don't make decent whiskey up here...but the beer isn't too bad (but it's no PBR)
your choice of beer
zen. zen. zen - please! PBR?? you must be joking. at the risk of starting a beer war here, have you tried Number 9 or Fat Angel from Mad River, (from Var-mint) or any of the microbrews they make all over VT and NH? (note to Miskito Alan - we call this state New Hampster). You can do so much better than .... that other stuff. If only I could get a Victoria! I'm due to taste some brews at the Woodstock Inn shortly, and will report back.
by the way, grits have been in the supermarket up here for quite a while.
I think we have to talk. You'll have to expand your horizons some more. (I laugh as I write this, just so you know. I mean no disrespect.)
Growing up in the south
Growing up in the south meant cutting your teeth (and destroying your liver) on PBR, Dixie and (if you were really low on cash) Red White and Blue Beer. Schlitz and Bud were considered better beer but you would run the chance of being seen as "putting on airs" if you went with them. And trust me, after a day on the back of a tractor in the Alabama sun, bush hogging weeds, an ice cold PBR is manna from heaven
And I think you can thank me for getting grits up here. When I came up 15 years ago, I had to have Alexanders (I think they are Shaws now) special order them and I would have to buy the entire case. And until we got a Latino population, hominy was just totally missing in action. Good thing is, that when okra is in season, I can get it all as most people up here are afraid of it.
And I tried to expand my horizons, but between a "traditional new england boiled dinner" (i.e. boiled meat with boiled potatoes) and bean suppers, I stick to my southern cooking (with a good measure of latino and asian thrown in). But the italian and greek food up here is pretty good. LOL
Sounded Like
mine and ZenPilgrim's red-nek humor.
Very good post and reply and thank you. :-)
Miskito Alan ®
Awful: defined as
Cigars
Yer post
Red necks
Calling people Yankees
High quality habits??? Please define.
Junked cars aren't allowed in city front yards (I think zen's in 'the city'. Leastways, I call Conkerd kinda the city. It's city to me. Too danged many people, makes it a city.)
Did I say your post was 'awful'? I think I said 'obscure', as in, I don't get it. Maybe I hadda be there.....
Still no comment on the legal mess. Which is what I meant by 'awful'.
Legal mess
Is what it ALL is down here, how can you expect a 3rd year law student to have/show what an experianced person, (one witha little age behind 'em can do).
Money and or favors or having friends is what makes things happen here, absolutely no different than the (evil) USA.
But there is such a thing as working things out with the two parties involved for even murder, restitution of the family (caint do that in the USA)
Lyin' Farmer John Wayne
Well said Farmer
"But there is such a thing as working things out with the two parties involved for even murder, restitution of the family (caint do that in the USA)"
Exactly on point.
Different countries have different expectations as well as definitions of justice.
If you have limited resources to enforce laws, investigate, prosecute and sentence people for the crimes they commit, then the best solution possible is looking at other options for recompense.
For Recompense?
Not just Nicaragua!
The USA military is doing this policy as of this date. Every dead civilian's family gets U$2,500. What a crock!
Miskito Alan ®
Who needs trials
The opposite tactic is to just jail people indefinitely without trial. I've heard that's done in Nicaragua. Just ask Pete.
255-2222
Nicaragua's version of CNN for Nicaragua only. They'll know what to do.
"The loudest gets heard the most".
Only congratulating and participating allowed. Feel/Dig? I just don't have the taste for hating.