How US border checkpoints should work

The video is fiction. It simply documents how things would work legally. Maybe there needs to be something in between but if you are planning to leave Nicaragua and illegally enter the US, it is what not to expect.

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To get back to the topic at

To get back to the topic at hand I would just like to say that one of the main reasons for the intense patrols of the border with British Columbia was the hydroponic weed trade. Acouple of years ago we were actually letting the DEA and Washington state LE set up check points on our side of the border as well as allowing surveillance drone flights over Canadian airspace. I would assume with Colorado's legalization of cannibis that the demand will drop for Canadian product and the border scrutiny will lessen. Western Canada, in particular the west coast has never really been a hotbed of Islamic activity. Central Canada, Ontario and Quebec in particular seem to be where most new immigrants from the countries most prone to extremism tend to settle. The majority of the arrests of people involved in terrorist activities have also come from these two provinces. That being said, there is very little activity from CBP conducting random stops along the border or even much patrol activity that I have seen. Many days while out fishing I will cross the border and back possibly a dozen times, I think, as there are no markers in Lake Ontario. To go back off topic a bit I personally feel that the future of Islamic extremist recruitment is within the prison populations. Islam offers unique attractions to the average inmate, additionally you have a captive audience (literally) that already feels disenfranchished with an axe to grind against the society that incarcerated them. I see this every day, I have watched the number of inmates that practice Islam grow from an almost negligible number, to being the largest religious group in the population in sveral prisons. With the sheer volume of people incarcerated in the US, the possible numbers of radicalized individuals are staggering.

This is why I "voted" for

This is why I "voted" for keeping the photos for the new website and not bringing over the forums.

Several of us suggested that dropping US politics

…might be useful in chilling things down, but fyl, who owns the site, voted no.

Rebecca Brown

Huh?

Huh?

I thought it was Hughes

Fly Huh must be your Cambodian name.

lol

Nomination for Post of the Week *

*unless you heard this from your mother-in-law's cousin's aunt's father-in-law's sister's grandmother who was watching Fox News

No stops along the northern border, eh?

There are plenty.

The last time I was backpacking in the Pasayten Wilderness in far north-central Washington State (adjacent to the Canadian border) in 2011, I heard from other hikers that Border Patrol officers were stopping hikers on the trail and demanding identification from them. I didn't run into these guys, but I did hear an odd, faint, distant 2-stroke lawnmower engine sound for several days, straight up overhead. I thought it was my hearing, but as soon as I left the area, the sound was gone. Drone, I'm guessing.

And for part of the trip there was a very visible and noisy small plane flying a grid pattern for around two hours every morning. Low.

I have heard radio interviews with longtime residents of the Olympic Peninsula and northern Washington, and a lot of the encounters are quite aggressive. One man going home from Port Townsend to Quilcene after buying groceries was stopped on a county highway (backroad route), and while he was talking to the agent standing by the driver-side window, another agent opened the passenger door and started crawling in to dig around. Without notice. The driver had to push him out and luckily it only ended up in a shouting match.

I have only one quick search hit if anyone is interested. I'm sure there is lots more out there if you want to look. Things seem to be a bit quieter lately.

The note about Jose Sanchez, "resident of Forks and correctional officer for the Olympic Corrections Center" is relevant. He was stopped many times. See Lawsuit Challenges Unconstitutional Stops and Interrogations by Border Patrol Agents. The Port Angeles office used to have something like 30+ officers, with maybe 25 of them having nothing to do but drive around and get in trouble. Maybe they've slimmed down a bit, but state highway 20, across the inland north of Washington used to be bad too, crawling with anonymous agents in unmarked vehicles harassing drivers at random.

My favorite item is an old (2010) blog post by Paul Karl Lukacs. He's a freelance attorney who was working mostly in Asia, but who bopped around quite a bit, and seemed to want trouble. But the story might be encouraging too: I Am Detained By The Feds For Not Answering Questions

Oh, and one more thing - if you say anything it can be used as evidence against you. There are at least 25,000 federal felonies on the books, and if someone wants to nail you, they can find a crime to fit whatever you have said.


No Sniveling!

Ignore anything KWP says about anything other than...

…how to set up a radio relay tower that's not painted to spec. I've been amused by his fantasy of what my life must have been like -- and his horror of big American cities (Mott Street gentrified while I was living there; East Falls was lower middle class to middle class; Baring Street in West Philly was middle to upper middle class gentrifiers (I lived across the street from the ex-President of Drexel), and I suspect that Spring Garden Street is now gentrified, too). Anything he says about politics or Nicaraguans in general or me is probably wrong.

People who run tribes tend to need some outsiders as the enemy to keep the tribe cohesive and under the control of those who raise the alarm against those baby killers over there. I do the same thing in my fish tanks -- to keep the pairs bonded, I have dither fish they can attack instead of each other. The Kuwait princess who lied about Iraqis throwing babies out of incubators knew what button to push. People who don't fall as quickly or at all to the tribal war drums and immediately attack the dither community are portrayed as sympathizers with the baby eating evil of the other community. This is also an old old move.

Rebecca Brown

The Canada Border

is a different kettle of fish than the south border.

Canadians are perceived to be soft on Muslim terrorists. There have been a couple of incidents, one involving explosives destined for the US.

Whether the perception is accurate or not, there are enough radical islamists up there to make the news down here, and that probably drives what seems like more than adequate border staffing. It's not like Canadians are sneaking across to work.

When I lived in Florida there were lots of Canadians working there during the winters. NO one had a problem with it as I remember. Those WERE simpler times . . .

On the other hand, the Canadians are very protective of THEIR labor market. I would use some ruse to work in Montreal, my son once made the mistake of divulging his intentions at the Calgary airport: they charged him $300 for the permit to work one day updating a client's servers.

How Strange

You would think these hoards of terrorists would make our news....here, in Canada... But you're probably watching the make believe news.

There are many Canadians working in the US and equal protection against doing it illegally but the ones you really want don't have to sneak in because people like Bill Gates show up at the University of Waterloo each year to recruit and arrange for green cards.

My cousin's husband was told not to set one foot in the US until he had his papers in place. This was shortly after their honeymoon when they were on their way to Texas so she could start her new job. (Texas hospitals recruit Canadian nurses.) They assumed he would look for work so they turned him back at the border. Pretty cruel. He thought he could apply for his green card once he was there. My cousin has dual citizenship.

There are also foreigners who were educated in the US and then forced to leave. Some of them are now working for the US companies that wanted them but in Canadian branch offices that were set up solely for this purpose. Protective, eh?

Friend here is applying for a Fulbright Scholarship

One of the stipulations is that he must go leave the US for two years after the scholarship term expires before trying to get work in the US.

My landlord in Annandale was a Canadian who suddenly got turned down at the border (blonde blue-eyed, by the way) for residency and had to spend two years sorting it out, with his girl friend or wife managing the accessory house I was renting and their house for him. Finally got back in. He'd been working in the US prior to being told he couldn't go back after a visit to Canada.

There was a rumor after 9/11 that the attackers came down from Canada. That was disproved and it's very clear that they came in legally. One was turned down at the point of entry because the Customs and Border Patrol guy thought this Arab was coming to the US to work illegally -- well, yeah, but the work would have been self-limiting.

The other rumor that was used by some as an excuse for Dr. Watts' beating was that Canada is soft on drugs and is a source of drugs out of Vancouver to the West Coast.

Rebecca Brown

Well, US Perceptions

of Canadians are somewhat distorted, I grant you that:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g6IQ5RuVnd0

AND:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOR38552MJA

And who is Terrance and Phillip anyway?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7wxTQfh8aeg

Maybe we need better sources of information , , ,

This was the Muslim terrorist instance I remembered:

n December 1999, Algerian terrorist Ahmed Ressam was caught trying to cross the Canadian-American border at Port Angeles, Washington, with explosives in his car. Ressam belonged to a Montreal-based terrorist cell thought to be linked to both the Algerian terrorist group Armed Islamic Group (GIA) and Al Qaeda. The cell was apparently planning a millennium terror attack at Los Angeles International Airport. In April 2001 Ressam was convicted in Los Angeles of conspiracy to commit terrorism, document fraud and possession of deadly explosives.

The ease with which Ahmed Ressam and his fellow terror cell members entered and left Canada and Ressam's ability to assemble bomb-making materials in Canada heightened concerns about border security and the apparent ease with which potential terrorists can move freely from one country to the other. According to the CSIS, terrorists from 50 different international terrorist organizations come to Canada posing as refugees. Nearly 300,000 immigrants are admitted each year to Canada, many of whom seek political asylum and safe haven. Canada, however, does not detain refugee seekers upon entry, even those with questionable backgrounds, so thousands of potential terrorists disappear annually into Canada's ethnic communities. Armed with a fraudulent French passport, for example, Ahmed Ressam had entered Canada in 1994 claiming refugee status.

I captured the quote from here:

http://archive.adl.org/terror/tu/tu_0401_canada.html#.U0giU6LLI3U

I don't KNOW that the Canadians are soft of Muslim terrorists: as I posted, it's a perception in the US.

So is picking away at that one speck of black

Instead of giving thanks for the whole white page.

Apparently There Was

a problem at one time (if you read the entire contents of the link);

http://archive.adl.org/terror/tu/tu_0401_canada.html#.U0giU6LLI3U

9/11 was a big wake-up for everyone. The reaction made the world less free for everyone.

There was an enormous amount of terrorist financing originating in the US prior to 9/11 ; Canada wasn't alone in hosting these loons.

Efforts by the NSA identified and shut down most of these groups, and dried up the funding.

Apparently the Canadians weren't that soft on him

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmed_Ressam

The irony is that this country didn't shut its borders to enemy aliens or its own citizens who were opposed to the regime in the 1980s -- and Nicaraguans are quite proud that they didn't let US sponsored terrorism to cause them to give up a freedom they considered basic -- freedom to travel. And tons of Americans and British abuse this, but still haven't been rounded up and deported.

Nicaragua lost 60,000 to 100,000 people due to US interference out of a population of 3 million and didn't panic. The US lost less than 5,000 out of a population of 300,000,000 and lost a good chunk of its soul. Or people who never liked our freedoms took the opportunity to panic us into surrendering them.

We all should thank the US customs agent, Diana Dean, who stopped this guy because he was "acting hinky."

Rebecca Brown

The Only Part

of your post that works is: "lost a good chunk of its soul " ---and we lost a big piece of our innocence. The World Trade Center wasn't a military target, it was civilians working at office jobs. It was pure terror. I remember the Palestinians dancing in the streets afterwards,, and as far as I'm concerned the Israelis can continue to build as many settlements as they want.

I would personally support legislation that would redefine Islam and strip it of the constitutional protections it currently enjoys. Did we consider communism a religion? Islam is the same thing, an effort to impose someone's warped thinking on the rest of the world.

If Nicaragua had Gringos moving carloads of explosives into Nicaragua to bomb the Managua airport, their attitude would be quite different towards us. Instead, except for a tiny few, Americans come here to help and support.

I know you'll bring up your Jinotega friend as an example of all Gringos in Nicaragua, but no Gringo that I know of has attempted this:

" . . . .At first, Ressam was not cooperative.[1] Dean requested that he fill out a Customs declaration form, which he did, identifying as a Canadian citizen named Benni Noris.[9] He had a passport, Quebec driver license, and credit cards all in the Noris name, as well as another Quebec driver license with the same date of birth, but in the name "Mario Roig".[1] Royal Canadian Mounted Police later advised that the Mario Roig driver license was a fake, and did not exist on their records.[1] This timer, built around a Casio f91w, the model bought by Ahmed Ressam, was captured in Afghanistan in the early 2000s.

Another Customs inspector searched the car and found in the spare tire well:

10 green plastic garbage bags with 118 pounds (54 kg) of a fine white powder (which tests later identified as urea, used to manufacture explosives and fertilizer), 2 lozenge bottles filled with primary explosives hexamethylene triperoxide diamine (HMTD) and cyclotrimethylenetrinitramine (RDX), 2 plastic bags with 14 pounds (6.4 kg) of a crystalline powder (later shown to be aluminium sulfate, used primarily as a desiccant, to keep things dry), two 22-ounce olive jars with 2.6 pounds (1.2 kg) of golden-brown liquid (later identified as secondary explosive ethylene glycol dinitrate (EGDN), an extremely explosive and volatile nitroglycerin equivalent that is twice as powerful as TNT), and 4 operational timing devices designed to detonate primary explosives, consisting of small black boxes containing circuit boards connected to Casio watches and 9-volt battery connectors.[1][2][7][9][10][18] When the watch alarm would ring, an electrical charge would pass from the battery to a small lightbulb which had had its glass covering removed, exposing the filament; the bulb would heat, ignite, and detonate the other bomb ingredients in a chain reaction.[18][25] ...."

>>>>>The Contra effort was started,, by Nicaraguans,, over two years before <<<< the US agreed to support what was viewed as a counterbalance to an avowed -and failing- Marxist government in Nicargua. We never had boots on the ground. Even the Argentinians and Hondurans stayed in Honduras. The Sandinistas were actively trans-shipping weapons to El Salvador; committed Marxist agitators during the peak of the Cold War. They were an eager and willing conduit for efforts by our enemy, someone who had promised to bury us. Let's have some perspective here.

The Contras WERE poorly managed once the CIA took over the effort. There should have been more stringent rules of engagement,, better choice of targets, much better training. That said, had there NOT been contra intervention Nicaragua would probably look like Cuba or North Korea today, a Marxist anachronism in the heart of Central America.

And which is it: 60,000 or 100,000 ? I've heard much smaller numbers, and that included the losses on both sides. The Sandinistas made some bad choices, and choices have consequences.

Mining of Corinto Harbor

Not done by the Contras. US never paid up for its terrorist attack.

Rebecca Brown

You're judging Islam by people who were either outlaws or

…disowned by their Islamic families. It's like judging all Christians by the abortion clinic bombers or the guys who bombed the government center in Oaklahoma City.

Guatemala, El Salvador, Nicaragua fought long and bitter wars to reduce US backed tyranny here. They are not now, any of the three of them, tyrannies and two of the three have elected people from the revolutionary groups as their presidents. Vietnam is not that level tyranny, and let one of its major spies complain about the current regime to a reporter from the New Yorker.

Three groups made the Nicaraguan revolution -- and Daniel Ortega's group was NOT Marxist as some pure Marxists whined at the time and are still whining about. Was Jamie Wheelock wrong about the agricultural policy? Everyone agrees that he was wrong, even the contemporary FSLN. Horse has been dead for a while.

Look at all the stuff you've posted here about lying to your own government (or circumventing its rules to visit Cuba), the Canadian government by lying about your intentions for visiting, and probably to the Nicaraguan government about your reason for being here. And you apparently see nothing problematic about telling Nicaraguan Intelligence and whoever else checks this blog that you've done these things.

The US has never been an innocent country -- my month in the National Archives showed me that. It build a huge chunk of its economy on slavery. China made killing a slave murder before the US did (Ming Emperor who was a brilliant farm boy educated by the monks changed that law).

Rebecca Brown

WHat Does This Argument

have to do with me visiting Cuba, working in Canada, or living part time in Nicaragua? Or your friend who chopped up the Jinotega doper? I don't see your point, or even a faint connection.

Did you just throw that in there for giggles?

All I can say about your Islam statement is, they sure have a lot of disowned sons and outlaws:

http://www.honordiaries.com/

I just wish that the Muslim immigrants would refrain from honor killings and genital mutilation in the US.

Let's see, that's two guys who were responsible for Oklahoma City, and a hand full of anti-abortion zealots, against how many jihadists? You're already outnumbered just with the World Trade Center "pilots".

Phil pulls out one tragic done strike out of hundreds of successful drone strikes at terrorists and implies this is US policy.

The Sandinistas WERE shipping Cuban arms to El Salvador.

The Sandinistas DID describe themselves proudly to the world as Marxists, despite any internal squabbling that might have been going on.

Cuba initially, and later the Soviet Union WAS driving the dynamic in Nicaragua, something the US would have been remiss in not addressing at the time.

Corinto? The US never acknowledged any responsibility, and did not accept the jurisdiction of the court (which was the US right by treaty). Therefore, the finding of the court had no legal binding authority on the US, and the US position was subsequently upheld by the United Nations.

Nicaragua thought that they had won the lefty lottery,, didn't work out ...

Truth hurts, doesn't it?

I never met the killer and dropped one person's acquaintance when it became apparent that she had a bit too many doper friends.

Ortega wasn't a Marxist -- there are people who complain bitterly about this -- see the Nicaraguan Communist Party for an example.

The thing is that if I were to judge Americans or even retired US military personnel by you, I'd be assuming that they were law-breakers of various kinds who told strangers about it as thought it were cool. I certainly have met some who aren't like you.

The best opposition to genital mutiliation comes from people in the communities that practice it--and has be greatly reduced in Ethiopia (Christians also do it as it's an African custom more than an Islamic custom). Indonesians don't do it at all despite having the largest Islamic population in the world.

El Salvador is now a country with a president who is a leftist (though not a guerilla fighter. Nicaragua has a social democracy just like the one they were planning to have (and minus Wheelock's obscession with collective farms). Bolivia has a left of center government. Countries in Latin America are learning how to solve their own problems rather than bring in the US.

One thing that causes US people problems in the world is that they don't have any real experience (pace Susan who was sure we all had a second language that wasn't just a second language of our grandparents or something like that) with other countries. We can't speak other languages; we're exposed to them but not educated in them enough to actually think in them (most of us and pretty much all middle class or lower Americans -- mastering a couple of languages is more common among the rich or academics). We come to a country and expect it to cater to us, for our vacations to be everything from home plus palm trees and warm weather or scenery where the scenery includes some people in colorful costumes and some nice other charismatic mammals. One thing Nicareal said that was true was that without the language, the understanding we have of other countries is trivial.

You are, to your credit, beginning to realize how little Spanish you know, really, and are still working on it. I'm still working on it. People expect me to learn it if I'm living here.

One of the huge problems the US has is not listening to people who do speak the languages -- the FBI interrogator who said that the torture wouldn't work, that the hard core Islamic jihad people expected torture and attempts at humiliation at US hands, not a fellow Muslim who could explain that what they were doing was actually anti-Islam.

I would have thought that people knew better by now than try to use a whole religion as a boogie man. It's simply too easy to disprove. It's even worse than the Red Dress conspiracy theory that Bush, Queen Elizabeth, and Blair are shape changing lizards from another dimension, which is ridiculous but which can't be proven false if the assumptions are accepted.

Rebecca Brown

The president of El salvador

I don't think anybody on this website know who he really is,like most people in El Salvador, there will be some surprises there. I know the family and his brother and they are really left of left, not that it will be all negative, but changes.

Lots Of Words

but hard to ignore the visuals, and the reality. A good part of the world lives with this horror every day.

I still don't understand what the visiting Cuba, etc , etc , has to do with the argument at hand. Or the butcher of Jinotega,, , either, sorry about bringing him up.

The fact is, these people are nasty, really scummy. They need to be destroyed. Anyone who would cut the genitals off little girls is sub-human. That's who we are fighting, and we're fighting for the future of the human race and civilization as we know it. The alternative if they win is what is, as Phil says, Scary.

. It's not just a Somali thing as you say, Muslims in the US, Canada, and the UK do it too. Plenty. I find your rationalization of this repugnant, and your characterization of its prevalence, inaccurate. Not done in Indonesia ??

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prevalence_of_female_genital_mutilation_by_...

It follows that our government has an obligation to protect us -to the best of its ability- from these animals (although no animal I know would perpetrate these horrors on their fellows).

And that returns us to the thread, why does Homeland Security patrol the US borders, causing us a bit of inconvenience?

And to my original observation: why not just say, >> "US citizen, sir, born in Iowa, how's your day going ?" And get on with it. A good choice, and something we can all agree on: choices have consequences.

That's the old "fry predator" "think of the children" push….

…button and stop thinking. We are in favor of cutting the foreskin off baby boys -- or were. Foot binding and female circumcision were done to make their daughters more marriageable. Took communism to get rid of foot binding in China ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foot_binding) and that was constant pain for years binding the girls' feet. Some forms of female circumcision do less damage than that.

Genital mutilation is illegal a lot of places including Indonesia and Egypt, but many customs like these take a government that bites to stop them and governments that bite bring other problems and issues.

The US use to allow a range of things we don't do now, like not criminalizing the death of a slave during a corrective beating at the orders of his own, like allowing families to be separated from each other and sold, and currently allows keeping of killer whales under what many believe to be intolerable conditions ("Blackfish" is an interesting documentary about how humans treat animals that may be as sapient as we are).

We can play this game all night. It's a nasty practice but it's not the only nasty thing that's been done to girl children and some forms of it aren't worse than male infant circumcision. In some African countries, it's also happening in Christian communities, even more than in Muslim communities.

As for the horrors animals perpetrate on their fellows, I should video the fish tank. Lions when they take over a pride kill all the cubs sired by the previous pride male. Human males are statistically more abusive (in all ways) of step children than of their own children. Many fish and rodents, and not a few mammals will eat their own young if they are stressed. Better the energy for the mom than the mom risk losing everything try to tend babies in a hostile environment. In some species of fish, the males kill their male fry as soon as they begin to develop adult coloration. Humans practiced child exposure until abortion became possible. One of my other fish species ate his fry until the female got another male to ram him a few times in the swim bladder (potentially fatal), so she could mate with the new dominant fish. The new male was a more responsible father fish.

Any time the "Those people are animals, not real humans like us," we've got a leadership that is playing the same old tribal game again, pulling the tribe together with the outside threat where they don't have to be considered to be humans like us. If "they" are less than animals, then we can kill them and it's not like killing another human being. A lot of the world's most brutal damage has been done because someone persuades us that "they" are not humanly moral like "us," so can be kidnapped, murdered, tortured, etc.

Are the Jews inhuman because they circumcise male babies to reduce their sex drives slightly? A lot of gay guys and some others think that circumcision of any baby, male or female, is nasty. It is a way of cutting out some estrogen receptors, and probably does reduce the sex drive slightly. Guys who haven't been mutilated like that say the hygiene aspects of having a foreskin have been exaggerated.

A lot of things in the US are illegal and still people do them. And in the 19th Century, completely human beings occasionally beat someone to death for not following order or just because and that was completely legal, and murdered any white officer of black Union troops, and those troops.

And fyl pointed out, the thing was a skit, not a real video of a real event.

Rebecca Brown

That's easy

I still don't understand what the visiting Cuba, etc , etc , has to do with the argument at hand.

It is but one more example of how usanos feel they are above the law -- anyone's law. In Nicaragua, it was the 1980s terrorism illegally paid for in the US. The US/usanos like to pretend they are above the law and, many times, brag about it. That's isn't a good approach if you want other people to like you.

But What Does

Cuba have to do with the argument, or the original thread, or whether anyone likes me ?

Is this a popularity contest, to win >> Most Lefty,, ,,, (If that's what it is, I'll never win).

or an argument (based on the original post) about why US border security is necessary, and how best to react to an encounter with a border agent (and by extension, any law enforcement officer)?

I do appreciate your standing up for Rebecca, she clearly needs your help. I have yet to see her formulate a logical argument -about anything.

Finally, there is no prohibition on traveling to Cuba. The restriction is on spending money there,, in violation of US Treasury "trading with the enemy" rules. It's an administrative sanction, heard by an administrative magistrate, and is punishable by a fine. Kind of like a traffic citation, but potentially a lot more expensive.

This Is Islam:

http://www.honordiaries.com/

and it's not the odd mistaken drone strike.

It's all Muslims,, not a "few outlaws and disowned sons".

I wish they would keep it in their countries and not bring it to the US.

We got here from a post about Homeland Security presence on the Canadian border, and its possible reasons.

Back to the original thread: Isn't it worth protecting our country from these people?

No Key West,

You got here because you didn't realize the clip was satire.

Reading...

Scary logic

The World Trade Center wasn't a military target, it was civilians working at office jobs. It was pure terror. I remember the Palestinians dancing in the streets afterwards,, and as far as I'm concerned the Israelis can continue to build as many settlements as they want.

Of course the Palestinians were dancing in the streets. They have been victims of terror from US-supported Israel for decades. It was a simple case of someone had managed to show the US what it is like to be a terrorist victim. This is not to say the Palestinians (or anyone) is always right in the Israel-Palestine conflict but for over 100 years the US has managed to wage war only on other people's soil. Terrorism? It's a bit hard to use any other word to describe a drone strike on a wedding.

Big Difference Between

an honest mistake -no matter what the extent of the tragedy, or the circumstances - and intentionally killing 3000 innocent people in the name of Allah. Do you have any video of US citizens dancing after the wedding strike? I think not.

Was is nasty and there are a lot of unfortunate mistakes. Rules of engagement help protect innocents, but there are both tragic mistakes that result in the deaths of our people and non-combatants,, and rogues who don't follow the rules.

I've always felt the Israelis were restrained in their responses to the Palestinians. Invariably,, it's their neighbors who attack them, rain rockets on their heads (again civilian targets).

It's tough for the Israelis to exercise discretion when the Palestinians use mosques and schools as launch points for their rockets. Who is the terrorist here?

I like the "wage war on other people's soil" concept. Isn't that the purpose of government, to protect its citizens?

Let's work on intentionally

There are lots of dead civilians in Iraq. Intentionally? Who knows. But there are lots of birth defects in Iraq, because of DU shells. That seems pretty intentional.

Now, on to 9/11. Three buildings fell down. One wasn't even hit by an airplane which is still pretty strange. The other two, however, were designed to withstand a jet flying into them. What jet? A Boeing 707, the biggest and heaviest jet that existed when the buildings were designed. They were hit by planes of about the same weight. It seems safe to assume that (in your words) smelly Arabs didn't expect to kill 3000 people.

Now, maybe the building design was in error, the actual construction didn't meet the specs or something else happened. Too bad all attempts to try to figure that out have been diverted.

Intentional? I have been reading Secrets: A Memoir of Vietnam and the Pentagon Papers By Daniel Ellsberg. I am not finished but I have read most of what he has to say when he was in Vietnam. It's a good read no matter where you are in the political spectrum but, in particular, the public truth about what was happening in Vietnam is very different from the observed truth. It's hard to say that 3000 dead civilians on 9/11 is anywhere near the tragedy of what we did there. Following rules of engagement? I don't think so. And the public lies resulted in the death of lots of Americans as well.

In any case, my point is that there are lots of people in the world who don't have much respect for US actions. Suggesting that the US follows any rules is, well, fiction and that doesn't make friends.

Most of the old anti-Islamic geezers can't dance

Yes, and how does a country protect its citizens by waging wars to make Boeing and Halliburton richer? Or by lying our troops into harm's way (Mexican invasion, WW I, Vietnam, Iraq, invasion and occupation of Nicaragua, etc.? Bush Senior, smarter than his son, did just enough to get Saddam out of Kuwait and no more (and there do appear to be reasons for that invasion).

Germany waged war on other people's soil and ended up with a huge chunk of its female population raped by the Russians, its own cities flattened by bombing. Ditto for Japan, who claimed to be freeing Asia from European domination, though perhaps less rape. And Germany was protecting the Germans who'd move elsewhere and was just extending its boundaries to protect the people of German descent everywhere and murder the Jews.

Grant thought that we ended up with the US Civil War because of what we did to Mexico. We tore Mexico apart over supporting slavery; and the same issue cost more American lives than all other wars up to perhaps Vietnam.

Rebecca Brown

We drifted quickly

This is not about regular police, traffic police, ... This is about the border patrol. Does Nicaragua even have a border patrol -- that is someone looking for illegals?

In the past (1960s and 1970s when I lived in Southern California) I had been stopped many times by the border patrol. Never when I was near the Canadian border.

I have been stopped many times -- in a rental car, in my car, on a bus, ... in Costa Rica. But, I have never been stopped in Nicaragua.

Perhaps nobody expects anyone to sneak

…into Nicaragua.

The Border Patrol is now under DHS (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Border_Patrol).

What KWP is saying is that white middle aged clean shaven guys driving nice cars or trucks are not suspected of smuggling in illegal aliens in the US, but if they're driving a rental or car with foreign plates in Nicaragua are suspected of having more money than time or sense. Both are probably true.

Rebecca Brown

"...white middle aged clean shaven guys driving nice cars..."

Read this article. http://community.nicaraguadispatch.com/2014/04/08/us-embassy-cautions-ci...

The Embassy also continues to receive reports of transit police authorities stopping U.S. citizens and demanding bribes in order to avoid fines. Motorists in rental cars and those with foreign license plates are more likely to be stopped by transit police. Transit police have seized driver licenses and car registration documents from motorists who refuse or are unable to pay. Subsequently, these drivers have reported difficulties in recovering the seized documents.

Yeah, I am sure it happens

My total driving in Nicaragua has been less than 20,000km but that has included trips to Managua, León and, well, lots of places. Here are all my experiences.

  • I was on my motorcycle but didn't have a motorcycle license. I was stopped in a check your papers stop in the north end of Estelí. I produced my circulacion, insurance card and (wrong) driver's license. He transito wrote down the three numbers and waved me on.
  • I was on my way to the airport with a friend to pick someone up. Got stopped for an illegal lane change in the usual Tipitapa circle place. We basically said, "yeah, whatever". They got bored and told us to go on.
  • Got stopped in Managua for an illegal lane change. This was legit. I listened and was polite as he explained that he would have to take my license and I would have to pick it up after paying the fine. While Ana panicked ("didn't you understand what he said, ...") I calmly said "I understand". Ultimately he told me not to do it again, gave me back my license and I was on my way.
  • While heading to El Rama there was some sort of stop. Not a pull over stop but police in the middle of the road. They told Ana to put on her seat belt as it was now mandatory.

That's it folks. Most of that driving was in a "new" Mitsubishi pickup. And, yes, I have had a beard since 1970.

You aren't driving a Costa Rican plated vehicle

…up around the Honduran border and making trips back and forth to the US and CR on a regular basis. And you have a beard, so must be one of those Sandalistas. :).

Rebecca Brown

Immigration humor

You said:

[Y]ou have a beard, so must be one of those Sandalistas. :).

When I was in Migracion in Managua fighting over Citizenship, one of the people working there told me "You need to shave off your beard before you can get Citizenship". I know it sounds like humor but I can assure you that she hates me and this is but one of about 10 off-the-wall statements from her.

Maybe she doesn't like Sandalistas

I'd be curious to hear her side of the confrontation, which I do remember that you posted about.

Rebecca Brown

Why Didn't He

just answer,

Hey Officer, how's it going . . Yes, I'm a US citizen, born in Iowa . .Lot of "business" today ?? (meaning illegals, of course).

These stops only happens at checkpoints along the southern border, there is a purpose, keeping terrorists with suitcase nukes in their backpacks from entering the US. Anyone who has driven in the US knows you can drive from Miami to Canada, LA to Boston, Dallas to Chicago, with never being stopped once.

Try that in Nicaragua . . .

Would you give some Tranisto in Nicaragua (who has absolutely no reason to stop you other than the possibility of a bribe) the same ration of $#it ?

I apparently have never lived in your US

I've been stopped in Kansas and in California and saw road block license checks in the South a number of times in the past.

Any number of people are stopped for driving a car that doesn't fit their demographic according to the cop stopping them.

I've never had any bus ticket seller, helper, or driver ask for my ID in Nicaragua. I understand the US has occasionally done ID checks at random (i.e. not while searching for a criminal) at train stations just to see if the public would put up with that (the public apparently didn't). I've had to show ID to get into public buildings in the US, don't remember having to show ID to get into public buildings here. I've had to go through security twice to get into part of the US Embassy.

One guy who was here in the 1980s said that then, he was often asked to produce ID, but that was, after all, during war time. Despite it being during war time, he was allowed in, even though he as an American was technically an enemy alien.

And there was a rather brutal incident with a Canadian who switched rental cars in the US who had a very bad time leaving the US: http://boingboing.net/2009/12/11/dr-peter-watts-canad.html More here: http://io9.com/5497556/sf-author-peter-watts-found-guilty-of-felony-resi... Those of us used to US cops thought that it's better to just cooperate completely at the point where they can decide to beat you. Susan may have heard about this from Canadian news sources.

Also, if someone whose passport was Russian and who was driving a car with Canadian plates was commonly driving around the US border with Mexico, he'd get stopped a lot, and even more after the local Border Patrol had the details.

Rebecca Brown

ReasonTV....

Check it out.

Checked

http://reason.com/reasontv

Libertarians. Mheh. April 1 posting. Double mheh.

"Everyone behaves better when they're on video."

Interestingly enough, Peter Watts's video turned up lost or misplaced or something.

Rebecca Brown

Are you "write only"?

First, I specifically said it was fiction. Beyond that, who cares who produced it.

I certainly knew it was fiction.

You must be addressing this to Key West Pirate.

Sources vary in reliablity -- so of course it matters. Liked seeing that it was an April Fool's joke.

I understand you're a friend of Eric Raymond's -- ask him about me if you haven't already.

Rebecca Brown

" . . These Stops

only happen at southern borders . . ."

I stand by my statement. There is close to zilch in the way of border patrol enforcement a hundred miles north of the southern border. Migra raids are pretty much a thing of the past. We're getting smarter dealing with the illegals in the US.

I've never lived in the neighborhoods you have lived in, so missed that experience. I suspect that, given the demographics of crime in the US, the officer was just trying to do his job in a difficult, crime-ridden, minority neighborhood.. The numbers tell the story, check them out.

There are drunk driver stops on New Year's Eve, and I suppose special instances, like the police dragnet after the Boston Marathon bombing. I stand by my statement, " you can drive from LA to Boston without getting stopped . .try that in Nicaragua. . ." I've done it. I've driven in every state in the US except for Alaska and Maine (including Hawaii).

I appreciate the quality of the police effort in the US, have never had a problem with a police officer. There are always a few rogues, but I suspect the percentage is a fraction of the percentage of rogue cops in Nicaragua. I've NEVER had a police officer solicit a bribe from me in the US.

Cooperation goes a long way, in Nicaragua as well. US Police could be a little less swat-like and more polite, as the police in Europe typically are, but the police are dealing with a different offender here (US), the -lefty kill the pigs- crowd. People in Europe don't regularly shoot police officers in the face during a routine traffic stop.

I've been stopped in any number of jurisdictions in the US, always for a reason. Usually because I'm going too fast. I cooperate, thank the officer for his courtesy, and we part friends. That's the way it should be. Cop an attitude and you probably get what you deserve, here (Nicaragua) and in the US.

I've known US police (a sheriff's departments)

…to be quite humane when they realized they were dealing with someone who was a complete sad sack crazy, even though he'd just tried to commit suicide by cop in a rather scary way. The judicial system dropped the attempted murder charges and just prosecuted him for setting his jail mattress on fire. Earlier, they'd gotten him to surrender by promising to bring some of his friends to visit him in jail.

These guys were Scandinavian and those countries tend to be more humane over all than some other countries. Where the cops get to know the community (and the community them), policing tends to work better. Where I lived in Philadelphia, East Falls, had some good cops. Philadelphia also had a cop who shot a crazy guy for brandishing a metal chair in 30th Street Station. These guys in the video seemed to have been trained better in dealing with someone like that (or a drunk, or some of both).

Rebecca Brown

Nope. One was in rural Kansas

….the other was in rural California north of San Francisco. Forgot about the time the Colorado State Police stopped a Grey Rabbit bus I was on -- and decided that was just far too much hassle to bother with. Again, rural. Urban cops have better things to do than investigate buses full of anti-war protestors (another stop I'd forgotten about in Delaware, again not urban big city) or hippies and a guy who was a business major who just wanted to travel cheaply to his summer job (the Grey Rabbit).

Rebecca Brown