Ten dead in Northern Nicaragua in shootout

The story is changing as I post this but The Guardian has at least offered two possibilities. What seems to be certain is that the shootout was between police and, well, some group, and ten are dead.

Ten people have died in a confrontation between police and an armed group in northern Nicaragua, with accounts of the incident varying from a grocery store robbery to a confrontation involving an armed group that wants to stop President Daniel Ortega, who is trying to bring in unlimited terms of office.

Based on the location, the second version is more likely but let's wait and see.

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Latin Times article

An article in Latin Times offers a version that seems pretty credible. It even names names.

Roberto Petray, director of the National Association for Human Rights, told the AP that the shootout in the town of Ayapal were the work of 12 members of an armed guerrilla group led by former Contra soldier Gerardo Gutierrez, or "El Flaco", who on July 18th killed one soldier in another shootout with an army patrol in another small town near the northern border.

Article Begs More Questions

than it answers.

Is someone putting money into these groups? Seems unlikely, if they have to rob a general store . . . . but, were they robbing the store or just picking up supplies? One article I read indicated that the local police were called in because they were buying so much stuff .. . .

Aahh, Nicaragua, still the Wild, Wild West. . . ..The Grand InterOceanic Canal AND armed guerrillas up in the hills. How good does it get? We are living in interesting times. Much more fascinating (although not as satisfying) than watching ObamaCare crash and burn in the US .. .

I propose we start a fund, everyone kick in $10 to send Rebecca up there --(on the bus, of course, she wouldn't travel any other way)-- to find out what is REALLY going on. Re-Contras, Delinquents, Religious Fundamentalists,, maybe just pissed off people with too much access to agua diente . .

"...Inquiring minds want to know ..."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Enquirer

My Spanish is simply not that good and I'm busy

You're displaying that hustler tendency to belittle people who see through you again.

Rebecca Brown

Nicaragua's "creative" news

By this time it is unlikely you can find out what really happened. With local events, news tends to get consolidated into "the story". To offer an example (leaving out the names of the players), a person was killed in Estelí a few years ago. The story started out with various versions but fairly quickly it became "killed in a robbery". I am reasonably sure "the robbers" were found and tried. Thus, justice was served.

The actual story (because I know one of the police that was at the crime scene) was that the guy was killed by people who knew him and knew he was gay which was their excuse for the crime. But, the family of the person killed didn't like that version. Thus, a plausable alternative was put forward to protect the image of the family.

Nicaragua story telling was never meant to be so immediate

You can get caught short very easily trying to be the first one to post the news story.

Not easy to get the facts and the correct names (if the hooked on fonics versions are not acceptable).

MJT has the hang of it. He walks down the hill and "nails them all" as the old bull and young bull joke goes.

I guess if

You found six guys trying to "organize" on the factory floor, firing them might be difficult but accusing them of theft and leaking the religious cult infiltration story to the media would be a better result.

All six falling in an acid bath maybe too obvious....but wait, didn't we always want get rid of that in-house security guy and his 3 stooges? Hmmm, I Iove it when a plan comes together.

All ten gone....in 15 seconds.

Religious sect (urban legend?)

This may be total nonsense, and it differs greatly from the other little blurbs I saw online. But, a radio station in Honduras reported that the group in the gunfight with police was not a gang of criminals per se, but part a religious sect named “William Brown”. An actual robbery was not described, only a situation where those involved appeared to be ordering far more goods than the owner thought they could pay for. Police were sought, which escalated when someone was struck in the face with a hammer while someone else attempted to take or start a chainsaw or other device (while another one uttered the start of some religious pronouncement or prayer). The commentary included mention of names of some of those associated with the sect, and some of those killed. I would think/assume many of these first names are uncommon in C.A., outside certain circles: Enoch, Geber, Amos, Ephraim, Abel, Ozias, etc. A local fundamentalist preacher claimed to have denounced and/or banished members of this cult from his “territory” for claiming they could raise the dead, etc. It was also stated that those killed were not from the town in which they had the gunfight - and the area mentioned in some respect was Parpar(?) or Parparsito(?). It was said they were not allowed to be buried by those of their faith. It was claimed they were placed in a mass grave by members of the military and/or police. It was not described in terms of a group opposed to constitutional changes, in favor of the Contras, or common criminality - but as some weird, unexplained sect's confrontation with police. Could also just be total nonsense or urban legend via rural radio.

Unfortunately, the detail of the names fit the story.

Had a couple of less toxic varieties of religious cults in Virginia, including one guy who declared that polygamy was a sacred rite. State of VA refused to make a martyr of him and said that if he hadn't gotten a state issued marriage license for the second spouse, they didn't care.

Some guy declaring himself the appointed voice of God and being able to convince a few other people that they'd be saved/have eternal life if they'd follow him -- sigh. See any number of people pulling that or trying to pull that in the US, even in Japan and Europe.

Rebecca Brown

Sounds like...

The perfect explanation, thank you. Now, move right along, nothing to see here.

Although.......Rebecca, what about a "Ruta de Misioneros Muertos" (Coffee having been already taken).

They could start at Jinotega City and tour the religious genocide locations.

Religious hysterias, oh, gee...

Religious hysterias of various sorts are not uncommon. Also, religious shysters -- this place is over run with various fundamentalists who seem to drive nice cars.

Rebecca Brown

I'm with Juanno on this

It's just begging for a pilgrimage trail through the hills and craft stores full of religious doohickeys. :-)

When I Was In

Jinotega some years back ( BRE, or before Rebecca) there were some Mormon polygamists in town. Supposedly they were looking for a large piece of land next to the Honduran border.

These were (again, supposedly, I only saw them, didn't talk to them) refugees from Sonora, Mexico, driven out by the cartel violence. They were very conservatively dressed, men in black, women in long skirts with some head covering. Big SUV.

Who knows what is up there in the hills ?

The Religious Sect Story is rising to the top.

I'm busy

…and I read "Pursuit of the Millennium" already and know how this ends: exile or death.

Rebecca Brown

How many Nicas does it take to rob a grocery store in boonies?

In the mountainous zone defined by the border with Honduras and the Matagalpa-Puerto Cabezas highway. The region where Sandino's guerrillas battled US Marines & robbed stores.

La Prensa & END report the ten killed were 4 police & 6 'delinquents'. La Prensa reports that the 'delinquents' wore armbands, "con insignias colombianas" (go figure), and that an Army helicopter was dispatched to the area. A rather important grocery store, eh?

Why is it that some people aren't happy with a dictatorship that's rewriting the constitution for their own perpetual rule, while selling the country's future to the Chinese? I mean, look at all the gewgaws in the stores for Christmas.

Stranger And Stranger

bedfellows .. .

Colombia is unhappy with their loss of Carib waters; would they finance and provide arms to rebels under the guise of democracy?

I just finished Kenneth E. Morris' Unfinished Revolution: Daniel Ortega and Nicaragua's Struggle for Liberation. He draws the same conclusions I do:

DO is the devil we know, his predecessors were much worse. Nicaragua has been enjoyed the longest run of stability and increasing prosperity that it has ever seen. Ortega doesn't steal that much (doesn't need to), has been watching out for the poor by enhancing the infrastructure that helps them, like clinics, schools, roads, and extending the electrical grid into the campo.

Finally, Nicas don't really care about (his conclusion, not mine) democracy. They want the dignity of a job, and a future for their children.

"...For all his faults, Ortega is foremost a patriot committed to improving the lives of the poor, and in this endeavor he is surprisingly supportive of private business . ."

Morris lives in Costa Rica.

yep..

i have been living in nica..scine 1998..he might not be perfect..but he has done more than any other president..i have seen..yeah aleman..now he was a true thief

Given that rebel groups in the past have used robbery

…to finance themselves, both robbing a store and being Contras may be true.

Rebecca Brown

Both true...

"a grocery store robbery" funding the "armed group that wants to stop President Daniel Ortega". DO knows the drill, he did the same thing, and was locked up for it.

Looking back, a shoot out would have changed the course of history...and this time DO is writing it.