Leaving the CA-4 for another 90 day visa

Submitted by Daddy-YO on Sat, 2013/03/02 - 17:27.

That means going to Costa Rica, Mexico or further. Though married to a Nica & retired, I choose not to pursue residence here. I actually like my birth country as much as Nicaragua. So I'm a tourist with a slew of Nica dependents.

Last year, when I 're-upped' at the CR border (NL-node/19771), I simply turned around, at no cost to me in CR, and walked back into Nicaragua, because I'd missed the last bus (6:30PM then, now 7:30PM, M-F) out of Peñas Blancas to La Cruz. No more, it seems. CR migracion demanded proof of transport out of country this time around before letting us enter. (And it had to be a capital to capital ticket, I believe.) Conveniently (in the diabolical sense of governments) three bus lines had booths outside the migracion office. U$25 each, cash dollars only. I was caught nearly short after blowing cash dollars on a Valentine's day tour of Granada's islettas + dinner. I was packing Cordovas & Colones. (Avoiding the moneychangers at border crossings can save a lot of hassle.)

But that, as it turned out, was a further problem. You see I had 64,000 in two-year old Colones. (That was some $115 dollars worth, still like new bills, issued by a CR ATM in 2011.) Ready to board the bus to La Cruz (fare = 450 each), I was shocked when the driver told me all my Colones were worthless. During the last two years CR had purged its Colones. (Had a colonoscopy proved many were bogus?) The driver accepted my last $20 bill (far older than the Colones) and returned to me 9,000 in colorful money + paperweight coins. The next day a CR bank gave me new paper money for the old 5,000 & 10,000 bills - they said the exchange is open til April. But the 2,000 bills (with sharks) could only be swapped out at BCR in San Jose. Drats - a loss, but offset by the appreciated value of Colones. Ticos called the shark bills souveigners - ja!

Our compulsory tickets (I chose Ticabus) out of El Mundo Tico could be used from Liberia or San Jose to Managua, but we had to make seat reservations days in advance. That was counter to our plan not to plan, to float & loiter whereever life seemed more succulent. Damned Ticos stole our liberty. We did a loop of Tilaran-Arenal-Fortuna-Monteverde leaving from Liberia during municipal festivals, which was nice, but CR is too expensive for relaxing.

It may be cheaper to buy visa extensions at MetroCentro - what's it cost for 30 days, &c.? Can one do a 90 day extension? I am interested in ways to beat this snag. I noticed the NicaExpress line also stopped in Liberia, and went direct to Leon & Chinandega. Maybe they offer something cheaper than $25 (or that could be purchased in advance with a credit card) that would satisfy the CR border minions.

Note: Last year (node/19771) Ocotal asked me if I had to "show a return bus ticket out of CR", so the rule may have been in effect then but somehow my late processing let me escape it. This is the first time in 7 years of crossing I got hit with this requirement.

‹ A weekend in Ometepe Story on crossing at Peñas Blancas ›

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Honduras?

Submitted by fyl on Sun, 2013/03/03 - 12:50.

Honduras is, once again, stamping your passport when you enter and leave. This happened to me when returning on the bus from Guatemala when my Nicaraguan cédula was expired. Nicaragua then stamped my passport with a new entrance stamp.

I understand this shouldn't work but it certainly did that time.

Same

Submitted by mjt on Sun, 2013/03/03 - 19:10.

Same was true for me in late 2011 & late 2012, and I know of at least 9 other people where this worked for them in 2012. I might not plan my life around it working, but they have been stamping on a regular basis, or nearly regular, for quite some time now. It makes little if any sense legally, but it has been happening...

Metro Center

Submitted by Juanno on Sat, 2013/03/02 - 17:45.

500 Cords per month (3 month max).

CR now require you to prove you have a ticket out of CR, the $25 voucher on sale right outside the CR Migracion will suffice and is valid for one year. I don't know of anyone that has tried to turn that voucher into a ticket.

It Gets Complicated . ..

Submitted by KeyWestPirate on Sat, 2013/03/09 - 07:30.

The return ticket requirement is probably NOT aimed at perpetual tourists from Nica, but at others. We saw two Nica families deported while I was wandering around, taking pictures of all the buildings, talking to people.

Kind of sad . . The family rode in one of the Tico Police King Cab trucks, the husband was locked in the back. The truck stopped at a police "sub-comando" just south of the Nica border, and a CR police officer walked the family, carrying voluminous plastic wrapped bundles, to the Nica border.

It would insult Nicaragua to provide an exception for Gringos :), and maybe there is some collusion, I don't know. Shelley chatted up a couple of young CR "hotties" who turned out to be "DEA" agents. They spoke very good English, had spent time training in the US. They were wearing stethoscopes, hence her interest (that's her story anyway). They use the stethoscopes to listen to tires, for drugs stashed inside the tire. They have their own modern building some distance from the border, modern computer equipment. Really shaped up guys, clearly watch a lot of US cop movies. Both had that cultivated "one day shave" . . . .

If you take the process with the right attitude it becomes interesting. We met another US trio, a woman and two guys, they were returning from Panama in a Ford 350 Crew towing a small airstream trailer with two big dirt bikes in the bed of the truck. They were testing the "road" across the Darien Gap from Panama to Columbia. Supposedly you CAN do it with a dirt bike. We didn't get to talk that long, they were in a hurry and my turn at the permit window came up. When I finished, they were gone. It was getting late in the day.

Almost ALL of the "help" we saw at Coco Beach was Nicaraguan. Our hotel had two nice Nicaraguan girls who did everything from prepare and serve breakfast in the morning, to clean the rooms, to clean and water down the grounds, AND clean the pool. So much for the "poor Nicaraguan work ethic" -- those girls never stopped moving. Most of the sales girls in the souvenir shops were Nicaraguan. Actually, the sole exception was "Diego" at Pura Vibes, who was from San Francisco. Diego has triple citizenships, US, Spanish, and CR. He was down there trying to quiet a title on some property he and his mother own in Coco Beach, and was working as a server at the hotel's restaurant/bar.

Heather and Tom Dalton have an upscale clothing shop on the main drag in Coco Beach. Heather said that $3 - $5 /hour was what the Nicaraguans get paid in Coco beach, depending on skill levels. Heather is a perpetual CR tourist, leaving every 90 days for the US. CR doesn't bother her; she brings back three suitcases of clothes every trip, but most of her inventory comes directly from China.

We have yet to have car permit or passports looked at in CR; although we did have to show both passports at the hotel. Perhaps they check discreetly.

As long as I can remember

Submitted by guy on Mon, 2013/03/04 - 10:08.

This has been the case for me for as long as I've been crossing that border (starting in 2004 or so). It has always been intermittent in enforcement, though I often see backpackers getting pegged for it while I'm left alone. I've never used the tickets that I was forced to buy.

The last time I did this CR immigration asked me how long I was going to spend in CR. I told the official "1 hour". He seemed confused and asked again. I said, again, 1 hour and I pointed to the cafe and explained I was going to have a cup of coffee, watch some TV and go back to Nicaragua. I was basically daring him to try to explain to me that I needed a ticket that proved I was going to cross back over the border or else I would have to... well... cross back over the border. I was surprised when he relented.

Guy...

Submitted by Juanno on Mon, 2013/03/04 - 12:04.

What would you do if he sent you back to Nicaragua as you dared him to do? You would have no evidence that you left Nicaragua. Nicaragua may stamp you back in for 90 days or they may not. I really don't understand the mentality of screwing with the guys at the border. Especially as you want/need something from them.

To clarify

Submitted by guy on Mon, 2013/03/04 - 12:16.

I was "daring" him to tell me I needed an onward ticket, not bar my entrance to CR. I'd have bought one if need be. I also don't want to make this sound too confrontational; I showed up concerned that I'd be cornered into buying a worthless ticket, but my only real "strategy" was total honesty. I was just also aware that my honest situation would create absurd circumstances for him to demand I have a onward ticket.

I definately wouldn't say I was "screwing" with him and I'm sorry if it came across that way. As a rule, I'm at my most deferential when at foreign borders. At most I'll occasionally play dim-witted.

I told them the same thing....

Submitted by nimodo on Mon, 2013/03/04 - 13:23.

The last 2 times I did the "border renewal", I was told I needed a ticket (bus or plane) to show I would be leaving CR. The first time I bought a "ticket" from someone standing outside the office at a reduced fare. The second time, I asked the lady waiting on me..."I am going to walk right over to the other side and sign back out of CR. Why do I need a bus ticket to do that?" She looked over her shoulder at the "salida" and back at me and said, "you need a ticket". It's a CR ripoff pure and simple. While there is a loosely enforced rule in Nicaragua about remaining out of country 3 days for a visa renewal, there is no rule that says you have to stay 3 days in Costa Rica. It is legal to enter CR and leave CR on the same day, so there should be no problem with anyone walking up to one window to check into CR and then over to the other window to check out. That can be done in less than 100 yards of WALKING. So to make you buy a bus ticket is an indication that the agents are getting a cut from the bus company. IMHO

No, its not a rip off, its a favor to you

Submitted by Juanno on Fri, 2013/03/08 - 22:25.

nimodo says:

"So there should be no problem with anyone walking up to one window to check into CR and then over to the other window to check out. That can be done in less than 100 yards of WALKING. So to make you buy a bus ticket is an indication that the agents are getting a cut from the bus company. IMHO"

Well IMHO, having read the law and regulations, they are actually doing you a favor by letting you off for a $25 voucher.

The law says you need to show a ticket out of CR within the duration of the tourist visa stamp (usually 90 days).

Really piss them off and they will ask you to show them that you have a minimum of $500 in your bank account.

It's still a "rip off"

Submitted by nimodo on Fri, 2013/03/08 - 23:27.

or a scam.... as you wish. I was able to buy a "psuedo" bus ticket from someone outside the building who was in cahoots with the girl at the window. I was specifically told to go right back to the same girl in order to use the bogus bus ticket which they sold to me (and 3 friends) at a reduced price. We each used the ticket and she allowed us all to enter CR. We then had to return the "ticket" to the seller so she could sell it to her next pigeon. So law or no law.... there are some shady dealings going on at the CR side of the border.

As we used to say in the Navy.... When someone in a position of power wants me "to take it up the butt", I don't consider it a favor when they offer to use vasoline. Because either way, the whole thing is a big pain in the ass.

Btw.... I just read this from KeyWestPirate's recent post....

. "There is no cost to enter CR, person or car, but they will ask for some evidence of leaving. Just the statement that we had a car was sufficient for the girl stamping our passpaorts, we didn't have to show any documentation."

So it's ok to drive into and out of CR without a bus or plane ticket but not ok to walk!!!! The only law here being enforced is the law of "greased palms"!

Respect?

Submitted by fyl on Sat, 2013/03/09 - 06:35.

While many government regulations irritate me (and that certainly includes first world countries), Your lack of respect for regulations just supports the concept of creating Gringo exceptions. Then you see the governments as corrupt because they didn't create exactly the Gringo exception you want.

I know someone who got his Nicaraguan wife a six month visa to go to the US. They stayed there for over a year. When they tried to get her another visa so they could return again, the US government said no because she had not followed the rules. Whether or not we like the rules, it is not just Nicaragua that has them.

The cross the border game is pretty common in Central America and because different countries have different rules, game playing is just encouraged. For example, in Guatemala, it is a trip to Mexico for you (or just your passport). The CA-4 is a step in the direction. It was supposed to include Costa Rica but they decided not to play. Too bad.

Is there a better solution? My choice would be open borders -- all around the world -- but suggesting that encourages big-time political rants. I think Ecuador offers a good compromise. The law is very simple. You can stay in the country up to 180 days in any one year. Enter and leave all you want but when you reach 180 days you have to leave and can't come back until an elapsed year is up. If you want to stay longer, you must get residency.

Too many people here want to do things they could not do

Submitted by oncidiumfan on Sat, 2013/03/09 - 11:27.

...if they were Nicaraguans trying to do them in the US.

Anyone who is doing extended tourism should be working hard to get Nicaraguans the same rights to travel and live in the US, or they're being hypocritical about wanting one set of rules for them and another for those other people.

Rebecca Brown

You are just not getting it are you?

Submitted by Juanno on Fri, 2013/03/08 - 23:52.

How about they just apply the law and ask you for a return ticket? Where you going to get one from? You would have to buy a $29 Tica Bus ticket from SJ to Managua (they don't sell a lesser fare) before you got to the border.

You need to show you have ticket out. They make an exception for those on a quick turn around and let you buy a voucher for a bus ticket. It lasts one year, its dated and has your name and passport number on it.

If its that much of a pain in the ass then get a residency.

Respect???

Submitted by nimodo on Sat, 2013/03/09 - 08:50.

Respect has to be earned and when the "rules" get bent, twisted and broken for the sake of filling the pockets of corrupt government workers don't ask me to "respect" them. You reap what you sow and putting the words "respect" and "government" in the same paragraph borders on being "oxymoronic"! In just about every country!

And as for me "not getting it", Juanno..... I get it very well. If you drive in and out of CR,, you don't need a bus or plane ticket to show you are going to leave and if you walk.... YOU DO! I am not the one variably "enforcing" the rules at the border. It's a CR scam. Pure and simple. And not just against "gringos" because it is not about people, it is about money. I can agree that the "law" in and of itself is not corrupt but the enforcement of it IS! And as such, not worthy of respect nor compliance if said compliance can be avoided.

For me, residency at this point is more of a pain in the ass than the border corruption. Not having residency does not preclude me from complaining legitimately about border corruption. I understood this site to be a place to express one's opinions about Nicaragua and life here and that is what I have done. Or it is required here to only agree with Juanno?

i personally think..

Submitted by acc724 on Sat, 2013/03/09 - 18:02.

the system is great..with a couple bucks i can get a whole lot done..it is much easier than doing everything my the book.. corruption is everywhere..but in the states..they dont bother the little guys..at the borders and stuff..to busy making big bucks on drugs and stuff..lossen up,,and enjoy the system..used right it works great

OK, let's go down the list

Submitted by fyl on Sat, 2013/03/09 - 11:41.
  1. You are renewing a tourist visa. If your profile is correct, you are not a tourist. You live here. The way to get around this problem is relatively easy. You lie to the Nicaraguan government. You even do it in writing as you claim your reason to enter Nicaragua is tourism.
  2. You are told you need to be outside the country for 72 hours to reset your tourist visa. You have figured out that this is not enforced and so just ignore this.
  3. If you drive, it is a very different game. I can assure you that I would rather pay $29 (to anyone) than have to deal with the work to take your car out. As I remember, just the insurance is about $20. If you think driving is an easier alternative, why not do it?
    • First, you have to be willing to jump through a bunch of hoops -- most on the Costa Rica side.
    • The assumption is that your vehicle is how you will return. Should you over-stay, Costa Rica could throw you out and, hopefully, that means you will leave in your car.
    • By having your car (and if it is not yours things get a lot more complicated) you are showing that you have some assets. That is, it is very likely you will be able to pay your way back.
    • If you drive, at least someone makes some money off of you. Insurance and two different spray stations.

I don't know who, if anyone, is making money off the bus ticket but the bottom line is that you are still just doing an end-run around the law and you are unhappy that everyone does not appreciate it and decide to help you. Feel free to complain but don't be offended when others point out that you are just saying that any corruption is not there to make your adjustments easier/cheaper.

Not exactly...

Submitted by nimodo on Sat, 2013/03/09 - 12:33.

You are trying to put a lot of words in my comment that are not there ...and.....the problem has really nothing to do with me "making and end run around the law".... because....even if I had a place to stay for 3 days within walking distance of the CR border, I would still have to buy the bus ticket ...THAT I DO NOT NEED!!!! ... because I would be walking in and out of CR.

Your definition of "tourist" vs "resident" is flawed as well. In accordance with Nica law, a person can live here indefinitely as a "tourist" by renewing his/her visa every 90 days in the manner necessary. When applicable by a 90 day extension and when not by leaving the country. So by definition, a tourist is THAT person. Even if he lives here. So I am not "lying" to the Nica government. I am a tourist!

Also, I do not expect Costa Rica to bow down to my "Gringo" needs at the border... not at all!!!! But that doesn't mean I can't be unhappy about them forcing me to buy something I don't need, don't want and is part of a border scam. If they make me buy it... I buy it... but that doesn't make it right and that is my point nothing more.

I really only commented at all on this topic because of how Juanno was bullying and intimating the guy who originally posted about having to buy the ticket. I was trying to support his post and his experience. But I obviously touched a sensitive spot for people who live on this website. I know there are people on here who distain the idea of "perpetual" tourism so the topic leaned away from the corruption surrounding the forcing of people to get bus tickets to perpetual tourism. I was commenting on one and not the other and .....ni modo!!!

Wrong....

Submitted by Juanno on Sat, 2013/03/09 - 13:28.

"In accordance with Nica law, a person can live here indefinitely as a "tourist" by renewing his/her visa every 90 days in the manner necessary"

No, Its discretionary. If they see that your passport shows a continuity of border runs and no time back in your home country they can request you apply for a residency.

Don't underestimate the power of the Migracion people if you decide to push them.

Last guy here like that was told that if he hadn't got a residency application in process by the next 90 day run, they would no let him back in.

Nimodo

Submitted by Juanno on Sat, 2013/03/09 - 13:12.

I was a perpetual tourist for along time. I followed the rules, I did what was asked of me.

I now have my 5 year residency.

My wife had to go through a lot more than you do just to go on vacation to Canada through the USA.

And that was without lying about why she was going there.

"Bullying and intimating"...how pathetic.

Grow up and quit whining.

P.S. Non of your complaints, rantings and disgust at the system are original, the border staff hear them all day.

Just when I thought I had heard it all

Submitted by JohnS on Sat, 2013/03/09 - 14:21.

Submitted by Juanno on Sat, 2013/03/09 - 13:12. I was a perpetual tourist for along time. I followed the rules,

I don't know a person here that has always followed the rules and has not lied at one time or another!

Give the guy a break - Virtually anybody who has dealt with the continual inconsistent enforcement of the rules has gone through this phase too.

You added 'always' Mr. Stafford,

Submitted by Juanno on Sat, 2013/03/09 - 14:35.

I never claimed to always follow the rules.

What I did do is enjoy La Cruz. Liberia, Playa del Coco, etc and turn it int a trip not a chore.

The issue isn't what he is doing its the way he is whining and the terminology he is using. Other people read this and get the wrong ideas.

Try being a Nica and doing all this in the other direction.

'always' - Do you always have to say always?

Submitted by JohnS on Sat, 2013/03/09 - 16:50.

You would make good lawyer!

But I agree - Whining & griping are non productive and it is much easier to find a way to live with the system. The guy should have printed his own phony $25 ticket - I will get that service going right away here for $9.99 and always save travelers a bundle.

I beat you to it...

Submitted by Juanno on Sat, 2013/03/09 - 17:03.

We have a coupon coming out in the next edition with a $25 ticket on one side and a map & "how to" on the back... Always thinking.

Question

Submitted by nimodo on Sat, 2013/03/09 - 13:39.

Have you been an asshole all your life or just since moving here?

Dunno, ask Melissa next time you see her.

Submitted by Juanno on Sat, 2013/03/09 - 13:52.

She may agree with you.

makes perfect sense to me

Submitted by Billy Bob on Sat, 2013/03/09 - 09:00.

illegal aliens walk, tourists ride!

"Anything that is complex is not useful and anything that is useful is simple. This has been my whole life's motto."

Mikhail Kalashnikov, Russian inventor

Walking vs riding

Submitted by nimodo on Sat, 2013/03/09 - 09:52.

It's not illegal to enter and leave CR on the same day! And if you can do it by walking, why do they make you buy a bus ticket especially when you apparently don't have to buy the ticket if you are driving? And if it's not a "scam", why do they sell you and accept bogus tickets. That is the issue.

You have been here long enough to have heard this one before

Submitted by Juanno on Sat, 2013/03/09 - 13:21.

"Porque Si"

(Just because or because I said so)

If you are that confident, next time you are at the border, go ahead and accuse the Migracion person of a criminal act, "The Scam" and insist they accept your denuncia.

OK

Submitted by nimodo on Sat, 2013/03/09 - 14:18.

I'll give it a shot next trip! Te avisare'.

Thanks

Submitted by Daddy-YO on Sun, 2013/03/03 - 15:53.

Useful reference info. With the cord's steady slow inflation, 500 cords will soon be $20, so it'd mean $60 for the max 90 days renewal. Upon rethinking the whole idea, I couldn't go to MetroCentro without my wife (& live happily thereafter) and she'd blow >$100 on shoes & ladies doodads. Alas.

Yes, right, they called what I bought a voucher, tho designated for & sold by a specific bus company. Ticabus told me it was valid for use indefinitely with THEM, but, as you say, only one year with Tico Migracion. I converted our two into bus tickets at Ticabus office in Liberia, with passports &c. They said the actual ticket would have cost us $27.50 there. Since I only make the renew-visa trip once a year I saw no sense in keeping it as a voucher.

And thanks fyl, Honduras might be worth the gamble sometime.

Renewing the visa in a cabecera

Submitted by ocotal on Mon, 2013/03/04 - 08:20.

You can also renew the tourist visa in a departmental capital (cabecera), such as Esteli - in Migracion. They send the passport and paperwork to Managua, stamp it there, and return it to Migracion in Ocotal. I have done this in a few Decembers - to avoid the long lines of Nicas at Migracion in MetroCentro.

This would keep you from having to take the family to Managua and MetroCentro.

It makes me a bit nervous to be separated from my passport for 4 or 5 days, but so far, no problems.

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