I'm looking for a hotel in Matagalpa for an gay convention
Submitted by oncidiumfan on Sun, 2012/07/22 - 21:32.
These are mostly older Usenet people who have a convention for the group soc.motss (member of the same sex) every year and I asked about whether people would be interested in Nicaragua for next year. People are intrigued. One has been to Costa Rica, don't know about other people's experience with Central America.
I'd prefer Matagalpa but also realize that Granada might be more gay friendly. There's a hotel on a hill in Matagalpa that seems good, but I'm not sure about the gay thing there. I don't see these people as being likely to pick up local rent boys or anything problematic for the hotel. Matagalpa has had a Slut Walk, and has a women's dance/bar on Fridays (or at least did when the guide books were written, and had a Miss Gay Matagalpa pageant, so it seems like it's likely to be at least gay-tolerant or oblivious rather than hostile. The people attending are a majority guys, some women, and some women's children.
I really don't think Jinotega has enough going on to be a good con site. We'd have Selva Negra as a day trip, and possibly some trips into Managua, Leon, or Granada, depending on interest.
I've asked if people would rather hire a translator or try to muddle through on high school Spanish. If anyone knows someone who'd be a sympatico interpreter for the group, let me know. We'd probably be doing this next July or August, so I have some lead time -- and the current con is in Boone, NC, discussing this, so it may or may not be popular with the con-goers. I have also considered seeing if Matagalpa Tours can help us, and if so, how much that would cost.
See, even I commit tourism promotion sometime.
from ....to be continued
I hope you guys who review this allow me to continue. It's very important. So/ back to my point! I believe from experience that the "gay" group would feel very comfortable anywhere/ they would be treated with respect anywhere in Nicaragua. Would they get the occasional hackling from some/ ask all the pretty females in Nicaragua how often they are hackled/ oh/ I'm sorry, that's just the local straight men and boys whistling at the straight girls/ that's not the same!!!! you get my point/ i think/ i hope. Please bring your "gay" group down; pour some money into Latin America's poorest economy/ but most important/ enjoy your visit to a most hospitable/warm/ caring people/ and if you stumble thru your conversations in broken spanish/ that's ok/ you'll recieve a warm smile for trying to speak your hosts country's language. .... and leave a generous tip everywhere/ to everyone/ even all of those gay waiters!! their pay is miserable/ and the theory that i'll leave $1 because a) THEY don't need much to survive, and b) $1 goes a long way/ well/ that's all a bunch of crock. Have you priced things that They don't need in Pali lately. I literally cringe when i see how little a day's wages for an average Nicaraguan buys. I often leave $5 for a $15 tab/ to the pretty waiters/ and even to the waitresses!!! and......... to the person who "knows" that the auto hotels are full of gay men and their "waiter boyfriends"/ please tell/ how do you know? are you there counting as they enter? are they driving "gay" beamers/ that's aBMW for those of you who don't know/ and gays like them!! oh! and why are you there??? So please/ before you comment to anything/ be informed/ don't tell us what u think u may have heard from Aunt Bee!!!!!!!
You Are Welcome in Leon
I would like to extend a welcome to any groups( GLBT) that are interested in having an event in Nicaragua. I think you will find that overall the Nicaraguan people are tolerant and welcoming of any visitor to their country. I think your event would be a success in whatever area of the country you decide to have it. I would love to help you plan and show you opportunities to make it successful in the Leon & Chinandega area.
Can't say anything definite until after the voting.
Official proposals will be in January. I suspect that if someone in the US offers a venue, it is more likely to be there than here.
Rebecca Brown
Oh Man! Does
that mean I have to sell my 325i now? I really like that car . .All the lesbians who came to Key West rented those Chrysler convertibles. I just assumed that was the gay ride. And now you've scared me off the Auto Hotels to boot . . before I've even had a chance to check them out.
I did wonder a bit about this one guy at the breakfast buffet at Los Arcos last time down . . .he always gave me an extra piece of sausage.
Seriously, I wish your friends well and I hope they come to Nicaragua. It's just,, for us old guys, with all this gender bending, we need a scorecard to keep up.
The Times, They Are a-Changin . . .
I suspect some are your age
Couple of them are retirees.
Basically, it's either another cool trip to some mountains again, or Granada and the Big Lake, or some place in the US I won't be able to get to.
I can propose it, up to the group to vote on where they want to go.
My understanding is that the Auto Hotels really don't care about much of anything as long as you pay by the hour in advance (and I don't know about that "in advance.")
Rebecca Brown
Thanks
Most of the people I know here are fine with it, and it's one of the few places where I've been fairly boldly flirted with on a public street (and even more boldly since the first encounter).
I'm getting the impression the best thing to do is stay away from US expat right wingers, and we'll all be happy.
So far, the folks who seem most interested in coming here are also interested in Nicaraguan life, the politics, what life in Nicaragua is like. A couple of them asked about the nearest beach.
Again, thanks for this.
Rebecca Brown
"So please/ before you comment to anything/ be informed"
Good advice 23columbia....I suggest you take it.
Some of us have lived here for many years with our eyes, ears and and hearts open.
So please don't dismiss so much of the information that people have given.
And some people have lived here for years....
...without noticing that the label of the ruling party here now starts with "Socialist...." (I'm rather aware and wary of the second word in that label).
My impression is that Yankees can live places for decades on end without actually getting them, just as bigoted Southern whites could live near blacks for all their lives without really understanding them, never knowing a black peer (most Southern communities had black doctors, dentists, ministers, school teachers and principal, hotel owners, and undertakers). If they had a black friend, it was a faithful pensioned off servant who they'd visit, someone who probably still had to be nice to them.
I'd trust a perceptive gay tourist to know more about the Nicaraguan's actual attitude toward gays than I would trust a straight resident's impressions (one straightish resident here says Nicaragua is incredibly gay-friendly, which I also take with a grain of salt.
Rebecca Brown
Equally incorrect though is 23Columbia's observation....
"I believe from experience that the "gay" group would feel very comfortable anywhere"...
Simply not true and about as smart as leaving $5 on a $15 tab.
And the official party name is still the:
Frente Sandinista de Liberación Nacional or FSLN (English: Sandinista National Liberation Front)
The party slogan:...."Cristiana, Socialista, Solidaria!" is just that, a slogan. So is it Cristiana or Solidaria tat bothers you?
I remembered in in a different order (smiles)
The "Cristiana." "Socialista" is, of course, just fine.
I think some people from more abrasive cultures mistake the politeness for genuine friendship. A Nicaraguan friend told me that Granada residents had an absolutely cynical attitude about tourists -- fundamentally disdained them. A gringo who'd just come from there thought the people were utterly warm and lovely.
The group found the article on the absconding crazy birth mother last night or so. They gave me some other links this morning.
I'm from a culture that also does the superficial politeness things very well, too, and know there's a difference between that and being a friend of the family.
But for the purposes of a four day vacation, superficial politeness and no gay bashing works.
Rebecca Brown
Granada
Lived in Granada. Visit Granada often. Know scads of Granadinos -- native and ex-pat. Your continuous postings of third-hand hearsay is misleading and probably disingenuous to boot!
From my personal experience, a data-point of ONE, taken on the ground, living in and among Granadinos:
55% are proud of the fact that Granada is a unique place on earth that people want to visit. They welcome tourism.
30% could care less one way or the other.
15% hate all Gringos (and ALL tourists are Gringos to them) and think they are the enemy of mankind. You may guess their party affiliation. ("cristiana" indeed)
response to responders
what a sad morning it is when i wake up/ connect to this site to update myself on nicaragua/ a place i intend to move to shortly/ and have visited long term on 7 occasions/ and find several comments to this persons request for a venue for a gay group who decided Nicaragua might be a cool/ safe place to visit. Why do some folks who have posted a response to this inquiery feel that they have a right to speak up for how Nico society feels about/ treats gays? ...and i quess from an actual government censes or some other unkown source to the rest of us / have determined that many "waiters are gay!!!! sorry/ i missed that report!! in all of my travels around nicaragua/ and central america/ and much of the world/ I, as a gay man, and no, I'm not in the same cult as Sandusky, have experienced nothing but kindness and warm hospitality in Nicaragua especially!!! I'm not in drag (often)/ and I don't hide who I am. To the morons out there/ itleast the ones who have responded here/ let me share a few "gay" facts. Homosexuality is not synonymous with "pedophile". Fact/ and there are reports out there on this!/ 95% of pedophiles are heterosexual adult males!!!!. Fact/ the majority of prostitution in Nicaragua/ any age/ is of the heterosexual variety. Fact/ the vast majority of sex abuse in Nicaragua is abuse of females/ often minors/ and often overlooked by authorities. .Regarding the situation in Granada and the "gay" hotel getting busted/ as far as I kow/ and i believe that i have read every piece of information out there/ is that no underage persons were found/ and that no one has been found quilty of anything. The police on the other hand have been booed by the locals/ (some of the "officials" who conducted the "raid" have " moved out" of Granada, or as we are told "relocated") Many of the local Granadians have supported the local gays!! .....to be continued
it's an upside down world
but when a male has sex with another male, either with consent or not, does not make him heterosexual.
"Fact/ and there are reports out there on this!/ 95% of pedophiles are heterosexual adult males!!!!."
PUT UP OR SHUT UP! Sandusky was gay or bi, but not heterosexual. Do you have an agenda?
"Maybe, just once, someone will call me 'sir' without adding, 'you're making a scene." -Homer J. Simpson
paging
23columbia
"Maybe, just once, someone will call me 'sir' without adding, 'you're making a scene." -Homer J. Simpson
i guess
he shut up........
"Maybe, just once, someone will call me 'sir' without adding, 'you're making a scene." -Homer J. Simpson
23 Columbia...an update for you
Hotel Joluva
Four Foreigners Charged after Long Investigation
David William Thomas, Lials Barry Leroy, Francis Josep de Franco, Jan Kars Eugene Van-Den Broek y el Nicaragüense Raúl Antonio Urbina.
They are accused of sexual exploitation, pornography and other crimes of a sexual in nature after police raided the hotel Joluva of Granada and another site located in the community of La Laguna, where they found that boys provided massage services to customers.
Supposedly the defendants sold the city of Granada as a gay paradise, through a web page.
The Coalition Against Trafficking in Persons said recently that they were conducting a coordinated effort with all institutions so that these foreigners and Nicaraguans were arrested and brought to trial soon.
Maybe Rebecca may have to keep her head down (so to speak)....don't want to be found on a blog promoting such tourism and having it twisted around that you are in the sex trade yourself...Eh? Just Sayin...
http://www.laprensa.com.ni/2012/08/24/departamentales/113598-detienen-nu...
Two Belgians Found Guilty
For prostituting young Granada boys.
Francis Josep de Franco and Jan Kars Eugene Van-Den Broek found guilty of commercial sexual exploitation in the form of child pornography and sex with teens payments.
The public trial ended early yesterday morning, after four days and detailed that the victims were five boys of 17 who had sex with guests in exchange for money.
The other defendants were found not guilty.
Strong laws against pimping and against under aged sex
Good for Nicaragua on this one.
Rebecca Brown
...
I guess that's why there aren't any pimps and underage sex workers here.
Meanwhile...a few miles west and away from the tourism glare...
Los “pilotines” de Corinto
http://www.laprensa.com.ni/2012/08/26/reportajes-especiales/113847-pilot...
Sex providers have been visiting clients in hotels since God was a boy. So what was the difference with the two in Granada? Other than they were Belgian, owned two nice properties and were warned that they were pushing the envelope. That's three strikes, if the Umpire wants to see them.
...
Why don't we just admit that nothing would have happened to them if they were among the myriad of Nicaraguan procurers who pimp out little girls to Nicaraguan heteros under the protection of well-lubricated police officers?
Not that they didn't deserve what they have coming to them, in spades.
Other than that the only two that were convicted
Also happen to be the owners of the property....very nice property.
Prosecution wants six years in prison for sexual exploitation and six years for the crime of promoting tourism sexual exploitation plus 300 days' fine for two foreigners.
Defence are asking for four years in prison for the sexual offense and one year for the crime of pornography.
He said his clients are decent, have eight years in the country and are entrepreneurs who are engaged in work at their hotel Joluva and Club, in the community of La Laguna, where they were selling lots targeted at a gay community. "That's no offense here or elsewhere, is not punishable under the Penal Code," Flores cited.
Sentence will be announced in 5 days.
Probably will either happen in Granada or the US
Right now, Jinotega is being a bit less than friendly to male expats, regardless of orientation (none of the three guys who reported problems are gay, and one isn't single). Depends on what happens between now and January.
I've known two guys who had sex with older people as adolescents -- one straight, one gay. Both were messed up by it, according to their accounts.
One reason I think Algeria and some of the other former French colonies are now so anti-gay was the sex tourism of people from metropolitan France. One French writer, Gide, kept in touch with one of the young male prostitutes. He didn't have a happy life. Gide was one of the few richer men who slept with working class guys who ever did anything to actually help one of his lovers get out of poverty (another French guy, not an Algerian).
Hope they clean things up.
Rebecca Brown
No way
I know of people who would steal everything you have if they saw a bunch of gay people in there neighborhood. And this better not be a bunch of people preying on young "waiters" like Sandusky.
I think both Jinotega and Matagalpa are likely to be cooler
...about things than some of the other cities. The La Prensa seller tells me she loves me (in English) when she sees me alone on the street (not if I'm with another woman). I've also had my gaydar pinged by some of the women cops here, and there are a couple of Nicaraguan gay couples and singles in town, at least some who are completely out.
The people who'd be coming to the con said that the previous cons never told the hotels what kind of con it would be. Shrug. It's going to depend on what other bids come up in January. Some people are rather excited by the idea of a Nicaraguan con; others not so much. It's a group vote. My style would be to tell the hotel upfront and if they're dismayed, simply look for another hotel. It would be a group booking in the rainy season -- what's not to like for the hotel owner? I also think that for some hotels and staff, it would be a delightful relief from the usual mission groups.
They know the legal age is 18 and that the Nicaraguan police and legal system make occasional examples of sexual tourists who don't play by the rules. They're coming to see each other (it's an on-line group that tries to get together once a year).
The plan now is to go to Granada first, then to Matagalpa. My duty is to find a very good restaurant in Granada for the Thursday night foodie dinner. We're getting some interest in staying there until Saturday, then going to Matagalpa (cooler, less crime). If there are two vans full of people, some could go to Matagalpa a day early for the woman's dance and outdoor bar there, if that's still running.
There are a couple of gay-owned hotels in Granada, so it makes sense to get everyone to Granada first, and it may make sense to simply stay there (one friend has diabetes and has trouble getting around, a number of them are older, so horse carriage rides rather than hikes up to overlooks might be more fun for them). The main requirement is a hotel with a big enough central gathering space that people can all be in the same room together.
Traditionally, there's a Segway tour and a dim sum meal, but I figure we can substitute bicycle pedi-cabs or carriage rides for the Segway tour and nacatamales for the dim sum on Sunday. Or does someone rent Segways in Granada?
I also understand that some of them have food intolerances which probably also makes Granada the better venue.
Rebecca Brown
El Zaguan
I really enjoyed El Zaguan in Grenada, and the layout is great for a large group, pretty central in Grenada also. We tried a little of everything and were not disappointed with any of it.
If they're not that interested in tourist things,
I'm going to write up a proposal for Jinotega and one for Granada. I like throwing business to people I know rather than people I don't. Jinotega est mi pueblo.
Matagalpa has the disadvantage that I don't live there without the advantage that Granada would be a place I haven't been to before. If we have it here, I don't have to find a dog sitter and both hotels are about five minutes away by foot (unless Rosario gets her present tenant out of the house on the river, which will make it more like twenty).
Rebecca Brown
The best advantage for an out of your home town meeting is....
Not having to live with any fall out or consequences after.
I recall a Private Investigators and Security Consultants Conference in Edmonton, Alberta where they found a dead body in a room afterwards. That still gets talked about, especially by Calgarians wanting to score points on the never ending rivalry between the two cities. Calgary being of course the far better place to live.
The recent Granada "Gay Sex Hotel Bust" was a different scenario but you wouldn't want to get roped into a fiasco like that in your own town.
The Boone con was in two women's home town
What I'm reading about that account in Nicaragua Dispatch sounds like the guys were running a bordello with at least some underaged kids. Apparently, both brothels and underaged kids are illegal here, though prostitution is legal. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ages_of_consent_in_North_America#Nicaragua, though earlier sources give 14 as the legal age (obviously this has been changed).
Rebecca Brown
Here is an extensive list from the Purple Roofs Web Site
http://www.purpleroofs.com/centralamerica/nicaragua.html
Hotel Joluva and Hotel Club Alegría were busted recently.
Thanks
The point is basically to get together with each other (they're an on-line community that tries to meet somewhere once a year). Casa San Francisco was the one I'd been told about and the prices look decent. Might have to arrange a second hotel if more than twelve people show up (could be up to 20).
Some folks are interested in a beach stay before or after the convention (traditionally four days). Pelican Eyes looks over-priced.
I have to put the bid together in January, but wanted to make sure (a) people would consider coming here and (b) people here were not going to be freaked out. I've been telling people to expect air-fares in the $500 range from DC or Charlotte, and hotel rooms in the $50 a night range for things that were going to be first rate (and while anyone who wanted to save money could stay at cheaper places, below $30 a night was going to be roughing it).
And I feel vaguely mother-hennish about the prospect of the whole thing. I want to make sure everyone is comfortable, both the guests and the hotel.
Rebecca Brown
You be a pioneer
My general impression here in Esteli is that people laugh at gays and that gays are one of the big users of auto hotels where they can get some privacy. Nicaragua is a very tolerant society, but I think a high profile event would get a reaction, if by none other than the hotel employees who would be weirded out.
"You can avoid reality, but you cannot avoid the consequences of avoiding reality." Ayn Rand
Well, I'll just have to ask.
It's more a get together of friends than a high profile event. Depends on whatever else anyone comes up with. I suspect that some of the hotel employees themselves are likely to be gay, especially waiters. This year's event was in Boone, North Carolina and was pleasant enough for all concerned.
Couple of them are now married.
I see gay kids in Jinotega and they seem to be pretty well integrated in the community, generally in somewhat stereotyped occupations but not always.
Rebecca Brown
I guess I didn't miss a darn thing here.....
Still the same old... same old....
"I suspect that some of the hotel employees themselves are likely to be gay, especially waiters."
Same stereotyping by people who seem to be experts at all things and need to drag out (no pun intended) their sexual orientation to try to make themselves interesting.
Oh well... Good luck all
Holy Crap....
Nicareal is out on Parole....I mean Patrol.
Welcome Back
NicaReal.
A shining example of pithiness in posting
That reminds me of an old British postcard joke
A Private enters an Officers Mess where a Senior Officer says "Pith Off"
The Private says " But thir, I was only just thent here".....
Brought to you by "Give an old joke a new home S.A."....a tax and duty free business.
Perception vs Reality
The sea change in attitude in the US towards gays just goes to show how poorly grounded in reality some of our "truths" have been.