Güirisería in RAAN

Upside Down World has a great article on güirisería, artisan mining in RAAN. While there is commercial mining inNicaragua, this article is about artisan mining in the the Siuna/Rosita/Bonanza area. This is about as local and low-tech as you can get.

The article is full of pictures to help explain the artisan mining process. Note that while one might think this process which has been going on since 1880 in the region is not as dangerous to people and the environment, that isn't the case. This is also explained in the article.

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Mimundo

Maybe it is covered elsewhere here (there is a related mention at the end), but I dont see direct mining mention; this "Upside Down World" piece is derived from Mimundo. The original story is here, and it is a part of an ongoing thread on mining-related accounts (as of right now it is the only story per Nicaragua, but there is a related one per Honduras): http://www.mimundo-photoessays.org/search/label/Mining

Unbelievable !!!

Everybody know about the fight between Costa Rica and Nicaragua, in the matter concerned to the intentions of Costa Rica to allow a open mining operation in Las Crucitas, something that is clear would endanger the Rio San Juan.

Well...with all the noise that Nica government has doing about.... is incomprehensible , that just this year they are awarding a license to the same company that is behind the Crucitas operation.

Costa Rican court orders Infinito Gold to halt construction at gold-mine project

SAN JOSE, Costa Rica

A Costa Rican Supreme Court ordered a small Canadian mining company to halt construction at an open-pit gold mine recently, ruling with environmental groups who say the project is destroying virgin forest.

Infinito Gold Ltd. said the court ordered the company to stop clearing land at the Crucitas mine near the forested border with Nicaragua while it considered complaints brought by environmentalists.

The Canadian miner began cutting down trees to build a pit and tailings dam but has now stopped work until the court makes another ruling.

http://dcnonl.com/article/id31325

February 16 2010

While still awaiting a Costa Rica court decision on its mine plans near the northern border, the Canadian company Infinito Gold Ltd. is making strides on another gold concession in Nicaragua.

http://www.ticotimes.net/dailyarchive/2010_02/0216103.cfm

Nicanor, do you have this link?

www.mimundo-fotorreportajes.org

In English: http://www.mimundo-photoessays.org

Oops, yes you do....sorry yes, its the same as the upside down world article. Cancel this post.

Thayer Lindsley

The twenty-one Lindsley-controlled companies listed on the Toronto Stock Exchange are worth one hundred and sixty million dollars.

Last year the mines under his management produced forty million dollars worth of ore. Most mine executives claim Lindsley has contributed more to Canadian mining than any man now living. Yet the modest self-effacing Lindsley is said to be more delighted by the fact that he has kept his name out of all current biographies and Who’s Who. While lesser mine-makers have been acclaimed, Lindsley has carefully and deliberately kept himself an anonymity concealed behind the names of some of the world’s most famous mines.

http://www.republicofmining.com/2009/02/24/the-unknown-giant-of-canadian...

This men was the owner of Venture limited and La luz Nicaragua, two of the older companies that has been in nicaragua since 1909

"Rosario Mining Co. In 1909, La Luz and Los Angeles Mining Company acquired a concession for mineral exploitation in Siuna. This company was based in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania in the United States. Later, Ventures Limited of Canada operated this mine. Nonetheless, due to the increase in the price of copper during the Vietnam War, and the discovery of the copper mine in Rosita, this company had the greatest overall earnings in Nicaragua in 1960s. In 1973, Rosario Mining Company bought the actions for $1,468,425 (USD). In 1978, sales exceeded $61,692 (USD).

http://www.jubileesouth.org/journal/nicaragua.htm

more data

This is the list of the main companies involving in the mining, was hard to find them, because in some cases has been a acquisitions from other companies.

Mina El LImon and Orosi

B2Gold Corp.

Suite 3100, 595 Burrard Street

PO Box 49143

Vancouver, BC

Canada V7X 1J1

Was acquired from Central Sun , that before were in hands of

Triton Minera S.A.

Pan American Silver Corporation

625 Howe Street

Suite 1500

Vancouver, BC V6C 2T6

Canada

Trébol | La Flor | San Pedro

Radius gold Inc.

Suite 830, 355 Burrard Street

Vancouver, BC

Canada V6C 2G8

http://www.radiusgold.com/s/Nicaragua-Overview.asp

El Cacao

Condor S..A. .

Condor Resources PLC

7th Floor

39 St. James's Street

London SW1A 1JD

San Pedro,,Los Santos, Santo Domingo Chontales

FDG Mining S.A

F DG Mining Inc.

404-815 Hornby Street

Vancouver, BC V6Z 2E6

Canada

In this internal document of the company we can see the nature of the investment, that is ..like all capitalist investment..looking for gain only. In the document is described a gold vein of 2.4 km by 4.5 mt.

http://fdgmining.com/about/FDG%20Presentation.2009.May.v1.small.pdf

San Antonio Nueva Guinea

Minerales de Nicaragua S.A. MINESA

Inmet Mining Corporation

330 Bay Street

Suite 1000

Toronto, Ontario

Canada M5H 2S8

This document describe the mining impact in Nueva Guinea .

http://www.wrm.org.uy/bulletin/110/Nicaragua.html

Triangulo Minero (Bonanza,Rosita,Siuna)

Calibre Mining Corp.

1250 - 999 west Hastings St.

Vancouver, British Columbia

Canada, V6C 2W2

This company acquired Yamana .

Yamana Nicaragua S.A (Triangulo Minero)

Yamana Gold Inc.

150 York Street

Suite 1902

Toronto, ONT M5H 3S5

Canada

Chinandega

IBEROMINAS

Spanish company.

"“El gerente de Iberominas, el español Bernardo Pozada, ha hecho lo que ha querido en Nicaragua”,Felipe Ortiz Miranda, Centro Humboldt (CH), project coordinator :

http://impreso.elnuevodiario.com.ni/2005/11/07/nacionales/5155

Recursos Nicaragüenses y Australianos S.A. (RENAUSTRA), Bocay Bosawas

►This was a fail effort for a Australian company to open a mining activity in Bosawas.

http://www.wrm.org.uy/bulletin/24/Nicaragua.html

article from END

"Nicaragua debería ser más exigente" El doctor en geología, William Martínez, aseguró que ahora que los precios están sumamente altos, Nicaragua debería ser más exigente en la contratación de profesionales nicaragüenses para puestos claves, en vez de importar de Chile, Perú o Estados Unidos; así como que el país obtenga mayores recursos de esa explotación por la vía impuestos, y que a la vez las mineras cuiden mejor el ambiente en el país, a como lo hacen en Canadá o cualquier país desarrollado.

http://www.elnuevodiario.com.ni/economia/14845

PS: sorry if is too long..

Your'e not biased then are you Nicanor?

This comment (you snuck in); "like all capitalist investment..looking for gain only" suggests you might be.

So what is the right amount?

Somewhere between "Socialist Investment" (where people still starve) and "Capitalist Investment" where God forbid, a private or publicly held company may actually make a return on investors funds and a bit of profit (seed money) for the next investment!

here

My reference is to the investment in third world countries.

make simple...

Why must companies in the last decades, the best way for keep their profit or looking bigger ones..is moving their operation to the third world countries?

I'm for a point between, but with the same respect , regulations and obey to the laws , this companies have in their origin countries.

The problem is not

moving their operations to third world countries. It is as you say, having the same respect for the people and the environment as they are required to have in their "home" countries. That is the problem...they export problems with the production...in many cases they make do there what they are not allowed to do at home. Admittedly, some of those things may relalte to lower cost of production because of lower wages, proximity to markets or cheaper land. That's OK. But what is not OK is to nelect safe labor practices that they would neverv get awat with at home , or use chemicals that are prohibited for good reason in the home market.

I see an argument about this brewing in some posts below this, but I don't see any real disagreement about the principles surrounding what all three of you think.ZZT

In addition to your rather laid back comment nicanor

I would like to ask Juanno: Return on investment at what cost?

Are you saying it is OK to kill people and destroy the environment as long as the shareholders are happy? You seem to be saying just that!

As Canadian I can not condone this kind of action. These companies should be held accountable.

And maybe just maybe some of us have the balls to take on these corporate criminals.

Let's stop playing on national sensitivity and criticize others because they show off a company from our former home country for what they are.

Juanno, you can't have it both ways! You can't pretend to be "almost Nicaraguan" and at the same time tell Canadian corporate criminals to continue to do business as usual.

Get off the fence man! Decide who and what and where you are and where you belong! Protect your future family and their nation. (All of it!) Figure out where your future and loyalty belongs :-).

Nicareal, tell me your'e joking with that sermon?

Is this because I asked for some evidence of the claims you and Nicanor were making?

Why do you want to make this personal. What's with the "pretend to be almost Nicaraguan" comment, that was total BS and you know it.

You went a bit 'magnet' there didn't you?

Make your mind up on the personal posts versus moderator rule (yours).

Are you playing or refereeing?

And after you have spent your ammo in the fight against Canadian businesses, and you get reminded how tight they are with the Government here with Geo-Thermal Investment......where are you going to live if they kick your ass out of here as a political trouble maker? Canada won't be thanking you either will they?

Nothing personal about my post

Juanno, you had asked for information of nicanor to back up his statements. He provided that information and you promptly ignored it. Not one comment in your reply, Instead you got off on a rather aggressive play of words and it is clear, you felt you had to defend the Canadian businesses.

I was referring to the fact that, according to your posts you are planning to marry a Nicaraguan and that you consider her and her children as your family. You like the rest of us that live here full time have to decide at one point or another if we decide to make Nicaragua our home or if we view Nicaragua as "a place in the sun". Are we just biding our time because we can get out if things don't go our way? Or do we make a commitment to the country.

The "almost Nicaraguan" comment came about due to the many post by you that remind us that you are living a Nicaraguan lifestyle. If that is personal, well then we have differing opinions.

I watched a television program last night "Screaming bloody murder". While the program dealt with genocide, the similarities to this subject were staggering. The ruthless disregard for human life and the end (in this case profit) justifies the means.

If an opinion that some Canadian businesses are committing acts that would land them in jail everywhere else gets me kicked out of the country, so be it. At least I'll be leaving with the knowledge that I had the conviction to speak up instead of being an apologist for the greed action of my landsmen.

I am not collecting a pension from the Canadian government, I don't live there, so what are they going to do to me?

Let's not confuse the Geo-Thermal Investment with exploitation and pollution of a large area of Nicaragua.

Why don't you and I take a trip to that chemical cesspool and take a first first hand look? After we come back, you can tell everyone here how much the Canadians are helping the Nicaraguans they are poisoning for a few bucks of profit.

I won't even comment on the moderator statement. It is getting old.

Was I joking and was it a sermon? You should be able to figure that out :-)

I am glad someone started the new thread

"Should Extranjeros Protect Nicaragua from Extranjeros?"

So I can leave this response to nicareal here.

For the record I have never condoned illegal activity by corporations. I was reading up and learning about a specosfoc issue, MINING.

My defence oif it was one of Canada simply reated to the usieal tric her of sidetwcinga d cluodng a very dorect issue.

I didn't respond in time to the links that I was given. I'm sorry, but that doesn't mean I didn't read them and also find more as well as looking into the other side of the story.

Its easy to find a few links tp prove your point. I have more of a funnel approach.

I line up up all the information pass it through the funnel of inspection and investigation and then the ever decreasing reliable information coe ut the spout as "Just the facts Maam!"...The real provable facts, the sort that a judge would agree with.

That can't be done trading posts at 2 minute intervals.

Anyway Nicareal, you know when you are just poking and prodding,

I'll poke you with this one.

I think your Union Fenosa fence is illegal here and illegal in Canada.

How many of those (to quote you) "Animals that cannot protect themselves" that you referred to on the animal cruelty thread have you fried or injured with your system.

So to quote you; it is an illegal activity by a Canadian here, that would also be illegal back home...shall I turn you in to the PM's Office?

Or are we just attacking Big Business?

Do as you wish

You are the ex cop.

As for the animals, You have no idea how my security system is set up and if they can even reach the wires. But just to put your inquisitive mind at ease, "No animals have been harmed in the making of this security fence or during the operation thereof."

Nice move....The tricks of the trade known to the moderator...

While I was editing my post you got in quick with your favourite move,

You stepped in with a quick 3 line post thereby blocking my edit, now I can't change or remove what I wanted to.

Thanks nicareal, very professional.

No comment from you on the mining part of my post, just your usual "punch bag of the day" approach.

I'll try enjoying NL later, after you find another sparring partner. I am sure some one will oblige with a post to tweak your interest.

I suppose I am supposed to be psychic as well?

Now I am no longer supposed to reply?

You need to loosen up a little.

doing something constructive?

Juanno and Nicareal, when you see a Canadian company doing something wrong, report it to the Canadian government. Unlike most Canadians, you're in a unique position to see first hand what is happening. Here is the e-mail address for the Prime Minister's office: pm@pm.gc.ca. Don't be shy about using it - It's from his website.

And Nicareal, this is what you advised Lilly. "If something bothers you enough to complain about it, get off your butt and do something constructive to fix the problem!".

All you need to do is tell the Canadian government that Canadian corporations must be held to reasonable standards when doing business in other countries. This is for your protection too because you're there to suffer the backlash.

Actually Susan

When I wrote that this is one of the worst kept secrets. I was implying I know about this problem.

Since i generally put my money where my mouth is, I can assure you, the ball is already rolling. :-)

Thank you for publishing the email address. The more pressure the better.

I wish to make it clear that I am all for foreign investment. I don't like exploitation of any country by multinational corporations.

I agree

I agree and I realize you understood the problem. And the link Nicanor published indicates The International Research Centre and some other NGOs recognize the problem.

You and I know the average Canadian wouldn't like this exploitation. And I know the Canadian government will respond when it thinks the average Canadian is aware of it. Now just think about this for a moment - They're busy with a thousand problems to solve. Nicaragua is some tiny country out of many. They may hear a little about the issue from time to time and some mining exec reassuringly brushes it off as the usual growing pain. And it's lost in the noise of every NGO that screams at them. How do they know when to listen? So that leaves, us, the average Canadians having to represent average Canadians. And from experience I can tell you they listen more to a rational letter then to a bunch of angry protesters who make noise but don't give them enough details to work with.

It helps to know the focus of the Canadian government aid work and that focus is on health, education and the rights of women. So this means, when you write them, you have to tell them that a Canadian company is working against the health objectives of its own government.

Excellent point Sball.

When I worked for the Government in Canada, I often had to deal with what was called an 'Action Request' or AR. It was a complaint from a constituent to an MLA (Province) or MP (Federal).

It was sent to the Minister of the Dept. that covered the applicable legislation and then landed on a desk. It required a response in 5 days and went to the top of the in box.

There was a procedure to follow which included the draft 'suggested response' to the constituent that made the initial complaint.

These files were tracked like a guy on probation with an ankle bracelet!

So now you know why your letter to the Department head did not work so quickly and effectively.

Write to your MP. "I was recently on vacation (better, as you say sball, would be someone "working with a Canadian Government funded NGO" such as offering free heath care to an area affected by the rogue company) ... in Nicaragua and I saw:......please find attached photos etc. etc.

I was on vacation...

That's exactly how I started my first letter in 2007. Tell him what you observed and make a recommendation. I wrote the PMO instead of my MP because it was an international issue. To this day, I will never know whether I was the only one to write or one of many. But the big co-incidence was a month later, a NGO receive $3 million to implement my exact idea. Heck, it makes you want to believe in democracy.

You are right on target sball

in your description of Ottawa, how it operates and suggestion as how to tackle the problem.

Let's face it, last thing we want is for the companies to walk away and let others clean up the area.

What the goal should be is for the companies to clean up the area and their act. They should be assured of reasonable and yes, even excellent profits as long as they don't do any damage.

In this case gentle persuasion will, based on the first indicators, likely produce the desired results.:-)

I'm not interested to start an international organization, just solve problems one at the time.

Companies tactics?

I been in touch with this problem long time ago, mainly in the Spanish blogs.

In m research about this companies i have found a similar behavior among them:

They are changing from one corporation to another one, sometimes even in the same group.

So at this time i think whatever legal demand or investigations, will encounter a foggy line in which or who is the directly or the major responsible of the damages or infringement of the law.

Right now is other contracts awarded to more Canadians companies, like this one:

Golden Reign Resources Ltd

595 Howe Street, Suite 501

Vancouver, BC

Canada V6C 2T5

(the "Company" or "Golden Reign")(TSXV: GRR) is pleased to announce that it has received final acceptance from the TSX Venture Exchange with respect to its option agreement on the San Albino-Murra Gold Property (the "Property"), located in the Department of Nueva Segovia, northwestern Nicaragua.

The San Albino-Murra Property hosts the historic San Albino and Aguja de Arras gold mines and contains numerous showings. Under the stewardship of Mr. Charles Butters, the San Albino mine recorded an average daily production of 10 tons at 31 g/t gold during a brief interval before revolutionary activity halted mining. Charles Butters, a renowned metallurgist who pioneered the cyanide process for mineral separation and opened several gold mines worldwide, held the property until 1927, when it was seized by Augusto Sandino, leader of the Nicaraguan revolution. Over the intervening 80+ years, the mine has never been reopened for production.

http://www.goldenreignresources.com/s/NewsReleases.asp?ReportID=365934&_...

Other one:

INFINITO GOLD LTD.,

216, 102 - 8th Avenue S.W., Calgary,

Alberta, T2P 1B3

CALGARY, Feb. 12 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- Infinito Gold Ltd. ("Infinito Gold" or the "Company") is pleased to announce that an option agreement with a private individual has been signed for further exploration of the Zungano concession located in Nueva Segovia, Nicaragua. The area in the concession that is of immediate interest is near the Chachagua River about 25 kilometres north-east of the town of Quilali. Part of the concession is located as close as 10 kilometres from the historic San Albino gold mine and there is small scale artisanal gold mining reported in the area.

The Company has agreed to make expenditures totalling US$ 4.92 million over 51 months including exploration work, social programs, and payments to the current concession holder. If these obligations are fulfilled the concession will be totally controlled by the Company and the current owner will retain a residual royalty on gold sales of 1.5 percent to a maximum total of US$ 10 million.

The concession is approximately 25,000 hectares in size

Nicanor note: isn't p[ossible that 25,000 hectareas can give the same $10 million dollars or more in other businesses that don't implied enviromental riskies.?

http://www.finanznachrichten.de/nachrichten-2010-02/16137012-infinito-go...

This was a news from Sep 2005.

VANCOUVER, British ColumbiaBritish

Lalo Ventures Ltd. (TSX TSX Toronto Stock Exchange (TSE before April, 2002) today announced it has been assigned an option agreement to earn up to 100% interest of a portfolio of Nicaraguan gold properties. This substantial land package consists of 15 mineral concessions totalling 647,353 hectares (1,590,000 acres) which cover a trend along a highly prospective area of Central Nicaragua - the Central AmericanCentral America

A region of southern North America extending from the southern border of Mexico to the northern border of Colombia. It separates the Caribbean Sea from the Pacific Ocean and is linked to South America by the Isthmus of Panama. Gold Belt. Ten of these concessions covering 447,189 hectares have already been granted or are waiting for final approval.

http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Lalo+Ventures+Options+Nicaraguan+Gold+Prop...

sounds like Mr B

you are getting to be a crotchety old moderator

Yes my friend you may be right!

At least about the "old" part!

Still I stand by my convictions.

well dude

I like a man that stands by his convictions or for that matter will die for them as well. But like a good tree, one should be flexible enough to bend some into the strongest of winds, while keeping keeping the roots well anchored.

güiriseria

The correct word is güiriseria, what it is the activity, güirisero what it is the worker.

In the past in other blog i been discussing about this activities, that has caused problems health in the population around the mines areas in La Mina del Limon (Leon), Triangulo MInero (Bonanza, Rosita and Siuna), where all the water has been contaminated

The propaganda sandinista in the past point out all our problems to the "gringos" but the reality is different, in this particular case, the mines in Nicaragua has been under Canadian operations mainly, and they are the responsible( or irresponsibles) for the damages to the environment in Bonanza,Rosita, Siuna y Mina del Limon. This article is a project in Canada to analyze ,investigate this matter. But like every nation looking for resources, one of its goals is look for a better understanding with the companies.

"This project will endeavour to do the following: analyze how Canadian mining companies and selected mining communities in Nicaragua and Bolivia negotiate, identify factors that affect the success or failure of negotiations, and identify the skills required by communities to participate in decision-making with respect to the management of natural resources in areas affected by mining operations."

http://www.idrc.ca/en/ev-67583-201_050289-1-IDRC_ADM_INFO.html

This is a recently case of a Australian company.

Nicaragua: Australian gold mining company in the rainforest

http://www.wrm.org.uy/bulletin/24/Nicaragua.html

Canadians

Nicanor, are they really down here looking for resources or are they down here as part of their assistance program offering expertise to help Nicaragua look for and process it's own?

and; "all the water has been contaminated". All of it? A broad statement, in line with your first about Canadians and mining. Were any studies done that confirm that the Canadian mining plans were flawed or was it that at a local level, the environmental procedures were not followed.

I don't know about the latter, but tell me about the former.

A lot of Gringos go through all sorts of hoops to get a MARENA certificate. Yet in town, the open causas (storm water systems) carry shower, laundry and household "grey" water (maybe the odd bit of black) out to the beach. Nobody could not get a MARENA certificate for a development using that sewer plan......so why does it still go on?

I hear the sound of a red stamp being inked....

Mina el Limon Case.

This is the legal case promoted by Mina El Limon people. Unfortunately is in Spanish.

http://www.humboldt.org.ni/blog/2009/10/16/caso-de-denuncia-ambiental-tr...

And here you can see that is a whole Canadian operation.

http://www.importgenius.com/importers/triton-minera-s-a.html

Thank you sir.

I will read up on this.

Mina El Limon

This is something else i found, but interesting and shocking....

"Ms. Aylward also visited the site of a mine owned by a Canadian company and was horrified by the conditions that have resulted in the nearby town as a result of the company’s presence.

Potable water is extremely limited since the mining company has contaminated the aquifer. And while the mine may have contributed somewhat to the economic development of a very impoverished region, it has come at a very heavy human and environmental cost."

http://today.mun.ca/news.php?news_id=4904

here..

I have the information directly related to that cases, but i can find them, as soon i found it i will post the links.

But I'm pretty sure about.

Read this about Guatemala.

http://www.minesandcommunities.org/article.php?a=724

Canadian Mining companies are polluting Nicaragua?

This has been one of the worst kept secrets in the mining industry. All one has to do is look north of the border to Honduras and the St. Martin mines. http://blog.brilliantearth.com/2009/05/27/demand-for-action-on-nicaragua...

When looking at the link fyl has provided, one can only cringe at the careless handling of poisonous substances.

Is it lack of education? Is is lack of caring for the environment an the people working in that industry? Or is it simple greed by corporations and the ever present need to produce earnings per share? One thing is abundantly clear, if any company would operate in such a careless and even criminal manner in Canada or the US, the officers of that company would be in jail serving quite a few years behind bars.

I think rather than questioning them about MARENA certificates, we should launch a campaign to clean up the mess and to hold the culprits responsible, no matter where they reside. We should let them know they are nothing but criminals motivated by their and their shareholders greed.

Let's tell them it is time to pay the piper.

Happens all over not just in 'developing ' countries

The Chilean farmed salmon industry was once he model for production, jobs and profit by locally owned companies. multinational companies saw the opportunity and came in and soon controlled most of the market. Some Chilean companies sold out and made a bundle. Ostenably the reason the multinationals were there (mostly Norwegian and Dutch) was proximity to markets and cheap labor. in reality, they came because they could ( and did) raise salmon in ways they the laws of their countries did not tolerate. illegal antibiotics, unsanitary growing conditions, and what ever it took to make an extra buck.

Chile soon surpassed Noway as the world's leading salmon producer and they were the rulers of the market. They now produce less than half of what hey did just three years ago because disease crashed the market. The Chilean market is ruined for production for years and years. water polluted and disease still rampent...workers idle. but that is OK as the Norwegians have upped production in Norway and are taking up the slack in the market.

Jon is correct....if this stuff in the mines, waters and forests bothers you, take up the fight against this new type of imperialism. You likely have more power than the local people or even the government. Take the fight to Canada or the USA, or whatever. These things shrivel under the light of examination..ZZT

New?

"take up the fight against this new type of imperialism". While I do think you are right that this is an important fight, what makes it new? How does it differ from, for example, bananas in Guatemala in 1954 (overthrowing Jacobo Arbenz)? OK, in most cases, this new imperialism tends to come in the form of financial interference in governments rather than military but the end result is the same.

It also seems difficult to fight effectively because you don't recognize what is happening when it starts. All these projects start out as "increased employment, exports, ..." with likely more money put into marketing the idea than will be received by the local workers.

I won't argue with you about the word

You are right, not so new. I guess my comparison is with traditional definitions....like the Brits in India. Your second paragraph is undeniably correct, but thtat doe not mean once started you cannot/should not do something. Or at least try.ZZT

Government Involvement

The Brits in India are a good example as is the Somoza government in Nicaragua or the government-started nuclear power industry in the U.S. In each case, it was not a multi-national entering a local market but, rather, a national government being the primary ingredient in creating the problem.

The main reason I bring up the nuclear industry is because I have a lot of knowledge of its evolution. The critical step in the process was the Price-Anderson Act. Industry was concerned with the possible consequences of a meltdown. The act limited financial consequences of an accident to $560,000,000 ($60 million from private insurance, $500,000,000 from the government). (This, and subsequent changes are explained at http://www.eoearth.org/article/Price-Anderson_Act_of_1957,_United_States if you want to see the details.)

Thus, the national government passed a law that created an artificial limit on industrial damage which would be at the expense of the people. The good news is that at least it was legislated and "the deal" is well documented. In the case of gold mining (and other environmentally destructive practices) in Nicaragua, "deals" between industry and government are less likely to be visible.

Yes but

may not even be a deal between the government and a company. Just lax enforcement, or maybe no regulation or enough regulators. Point we agree on is that there area lot of ways for this to happen and sadly it still does, even though a lot of people in the "doing' country are against such practices. I think s people who have adopted this country and are in many ways living off it, have a duty to do what we can to halt that crap.

I often wonder how I landed here. So do many of the people i talk with this . They do not know precisely either. Sometime is is really unfathomable. So, maybe there is some extra-logical force at work and that is so that we an see what needs to be fixed from a different perspective than that of the locals and the people from our own countries who do bad things....and just maybe do something abut it. That sound pretty weird, but, who knows. I sure as hell ain't here for the sking.ZZT

big difference

How does it differ from, for example, bananas in Guatemala in 1954 (overthrowing Jacobo Arbenz)?

That is history, and this one is happening now, and whatever experience from the past, is not too much what you can use it now because is a different invasion, and with the difference that aren't the gringos the bad guys....a big disappointment for the activist against imperialism.

Canada & Nicaragua - Geothermal Partners

How would the "time to pay the piper" attitude affect those much needed projects?

Should the "clean up" have been tied into the award of those contracts? (i.e, we will give you those contracts if you do something about the mining area problems, i.e. a win win for Nic)

The Canadian money and expertise in the land mine clean up in the north of Nicaragua. Is that worth taking into consideration?.

I would pull the lens back a bit and look at the big picture.

Wait a minute how did we

get from mining to Bananas?

It is all ATZ's fault! He decide to bring Salmon into the picture. (I hope he didn't plan to ship them in the Cyanide barrels.)

I guess "Big Business" rarely is as innocent as they would like us to believe. I am wondering if any of the mining companies, local or foreign have any plans to clean up this mess before it becomes irreversible? It may well have reached that stage already.

They will only make those plans to "clean up" if

pressure is brought to do so. If you do tings right as a company, you don't make a mss and clean it up...you avoid the mess in the first place. In many cases, waiting to clean it up, means you have already caused a ton of damage. Which points to the fact that theones in question are not good operators to begin with.

The salmon example is relevant here. The operators in Chile coud have prevented all the problems with some simple animal husbandry methods and use of approved, rather than non-approved theraputants. They chose not to do that so they could make more money (as opposed to staying in business, which doesn't justify what they did, but would make it at least a bit less "greedy").ZZT