July 16 Protest March

Submitted by fyl on 17 July, 2008 - 15:51.
This UK Reuters article is a bit closer to sanity then the La Prensa one. Note that the END article was closer to this rather than the typical hysterics of La Prensa these days.

This, the second paragraph, is interesting

Carrying signs like "Get up and mobilize against hunger and poverty" and "Together against dictatorship," the protesters were a mix of conservatives and center-leftists disillusioned with Ortega's leadership since the Cold War foe of the United States was brought back to power in a 2006 election.

First, it is hard to assign a real meaning to the word "conservative" and the expression "center-left" that will be universal among readers. I suppose we can assume that conservative means members of the (not very popular) PC but what is center-left? Is that intended to encompass the Montealegre supporters along with MRS members? That is likely what it should mean but it would mean some major gaps in what is expressed a those in unity.

Before I "draw a picture", the other issue is that while the article calls Ortega a "leftist", it leaves you thinking he is at the left end of this alleged continuum. Ortega's strongest support has come from those of the poor that want more help from the government. Most of these people are unhappy that Ortega hasn't done enough for them. If, again, we see this as a left<-->right continuum, they would be to the left of Ortega.

Ok, my sorta picture. 

RIGHT LEFT
 PC PLC Montealegre MRS Ortega The_Poor
Finally, we toss in El Pacto which connects PLC and Ortega. And, we have the FSLN without Ortega position. And ...

Ok, it is a bit complicated. I don't think La Prensa, END or Reuters have it right yet. There is still a lot of work to do. Maybe counting heads at the 19 July FSLN celebration in Managua and the 19 July MRS celebration in León will add some more data. Let's see if Hugo Chávez can make it to both.

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Ohh and sorry!

Submitted by alexnuetral on 18 July, 2008 - 17:55.

about the spelling i should of checked it before posting.

How can you compare?

Submitted by alexnuetral on 18 July, 2008 - 17:50.

listen fyl i dont know why i evan waste my time responding to you while knowing danm well that your hard headed, the only thing i dont understand is how you can compare rizo or montealegre to ortega, for crying out loud man rizo and montealegre are both a billion times more educated than ortega and know about administrating, look my gran father may he R.I.P. went to school with thomas borge and i know a gentleman in miami who went to school with both ortegas and he told me there stories and said to me that ortegas dad was a conservitive and that ortega was always apartado from everyone else and was a starnge kid and that since his dad le volaba verga a somoza, somoza had him arrested and tortured so that made evan more derranged. Fyl i dont know you nor do i have any thing against you but try to open you mind a little man. I myself was cattering once to los zamora from bancentro in miami and guees who was invited? No one other than montealegre and let me tell you that those zamora people are nasty and vicious man and do not think it is good for montealegre to evan be close to people like that, porque le da mal aspecto man, i personally did'nt get a good vibe from montealegre but the man has brains and and you have to give him that, the mistake that the democratic party does is forget about the poor "alot" not all the time so these vicous animals brain wash them with these speaches and fall for there promises, another mistake that the democratic side does is be too soft with these parasites and therefore easily manipulate any government powers when they get a chance. This is only my point of view i bet a Billion percent that you dont agree with me i feel it is true comparison, all these sandinistas with the excepion of marenco "who is also educated" are nothing than nefastos full of hate envey and jelousy witch in many religous mythologies are the some deep'ist sin'z and darkness of mankind. Hopfully more people keep seeing the truth and start demanding change so that this evil demon and his minions out of hell can leave the nicaraguan people in paz!

I Didn't

Submitted by fyl on 18 July, 2008 - 18:05.

You said "the only thing i dont understand is how you can compare rizo or montealegre to ortega". Well, I didn't. My point was simply that no matter who was "in charge" here they were inheriting a situation that included:

  • Existing problems within Nicaragua (electric energy being a major one)
  • They would be the victim of worldwide energy and, as a result, food prices

To me, the best equipped to deal with these issues was Edmundo Jarquín. He wasn't a politician and was the closest to an economist with world connections of all the candidates. The MRS original slate (Herty as president, him as vice president) made a lot of sense. But, that's water under the bridge.

Uncle Hugo and Nicaragua

Submitted by GreenGold on 17 July, 2008 - 21:25.

Ah, yes, los pobres del mundo, fall down and worship at the feet of our great hero of the Bolivarian Socialist Revolution!

Maybe someone will ask, not that the Hero will answer:

Where's the promised urea?

Where's the promised refinery?

Why did you donate 2 generators on 10 January 2007 and then bill "The People" of Nicaragua $100 million for them?

Why were these, in essence, standby generators, never intended to be online 24/7?

Where's the $500 million (and mas mas mas) from the Medusa, er, ALBA/Albanisa-Caruna?

Where's the road from Puerto Cabezas to Managua?

Why has the capacity of the (confiscated at the point of a gun) state run oil monopoly lost close to 10% of its production capacity in the last 2 years?

Why has the great Bolivarian Socialist Revolution have four adherents?

Why do you need $4 billion worth of armaments from the U$$R?

Why, why, why?

Toni, pasame otra tortilla con (mucho) sal de nuevo, PORFA

The "picture" is skewed to the left

Submitted by bluewater on 17 July, 2008 - 16:38.

Not a peep from Fydel about the completely slanted coverage of Channel Four, Radio Ya (both owned by the Ortegas) and 100% Noticias of the march yesterday (100% of the advertising of 100% Noticias is paid for by the government). Not only was the government funded television and radio coverage "hysterical" to the point of inciting people to violence but also slanderous to the thousands of alleged "oligarchs" who peacefully marched through the streets of Managua. Very interesting that he called the article of La Prensa "hysterical" yet he does not offer the information to the readers to make a decision. Maybe the "picture" that he wants to draw does not include La Prensa or the END side of the story?

If he thinks that merely counting heads at a rally will give him the "answer" he is sadly mistaken. During the Violeta Chamorro campaign Daniel filled every plaza he went to. Guess what? He lost. During the campaigns against Aleman and Bolanos he filled every plaza time after time and guess what? He lost.

The only time he won since free sufferage after the war was during the election when the liberal vote was divided.

As to who is most disappointed with this government it is a tie. The campesinos for the failure to deliver on promises. The business people for the economy basically falling off the map and the salaried workers who are expecting 20% inflation this year after a 22% hammering last year.

Channel 4

Submitted by fyl on 17 July, 2008 - 17:58.

Apparently you get channel 4 in St. Louis but here in Estelí it is not an option without cable—something I don't have. But, beyond that, TV is not a place I would look for news.

The La Prensa article was referenced in another recent post (which is what caused me to read it). For those who want to read it, here is the END article.

My point is that the march is not about "political position" even though the Reuters article implied that. People all over the political spectrum have problems with the government.

Their grievances vary from lack of support of business to lack of food for the poor on what one tends to call the left<-->right scale but that is only a part of it. Woman's rights (right to abortion being one) are also on the list.

Inflation is the perfect example of a world-created problem that Ortega is "credited with" in Nicaragua. As much as you might think a "Rizo solution" or a "Montealegre solution" would have not had the same problem, I seriously doubt it. To me, it seems just like how the next U.S. president will be blamed for the current economic disaster in the U.S. The difference is that the current administration has had more time (read that as money) to delay the problem.

Personally, I am all for helping Nicaragua. But, it just isn't clear what short-term action can be taken. Long-term, I think we all have some good ideas but, short-term, the third world is, well, screwed.

Corruption

Submitted by Alra on 18 July, 2008 - 20:46.

Hola Fyl,

I don't mean to pick on you, but, corruption was left out of your list of grievances and that's one of the most pervasive issues affecting the Nica people.

Coruption in Nica, permeates all powers, from the Executive, the Legislative, the Judicial, down to the local municipal court.

Gracias,

Al

And Latin America in General

Submitted by fyl on 19 July, 2008 - 04:30.

I certainly see this issue and it is clear that some Nicaraguans do as well but how does that concern fit into the big picture now? I know the MRS is pushing that issue but what is the feeling of the average person here?

My read (and it certainly could be wrong) is that people here pretty much expect corruption no matter what. (If for no other reason that Somoza taught them that.) As long as they can afford food, shelter and some other basics such as access to medical care the government has done enough and, beyond that, they want the government to leave them alone.

Translating this back into "where I came from" terms, there are more similarities than differences at the people level. The main differences are

  1. the governments (national, state and local) do not leave you alone. You have a long list of regulations and texes which are reasonably hard to avoid. That is, certainly more so than in Nicaragua.
  2. Most soending-related corruption happens quasi-legally. Legislators agree to each other's pork barrel projects and create huge amounts of money that doesn't need to be accounted for that the executive branch spends on their own pork barrel projects.
  3. For most voters, the distance from their current income and starving or freezing to death is greater than in Nicaragua. Thus, they are less likely to get involved in the "if the air force had to hold a bake sale ..." argument.

Corruption II

Submitted by Alra on 19 July, 2008 - 09:18.

I agree that corruption is endemic to Latin America and occurs elsewhere, even in the U.S., the infamous "pork barrel" legislations that takes place after "arm-twisting" and "horse-trading" had taken place, usually, behind the legislators' closed chambers.

However, the Nicaraguan people can only address, protest and attempt to change the Govt. corruption that takes place in Nicaragua.

I also agree with your statements in paragraphs: 1.,2. & 3.

I don't know what your definition of "the big picture" is, but we would probably disagree on that one.

Al

The miracle of Internet

Submitted by bluewater on 17 July, 2008 - 20:29.

Go to the www.ibw.com.ni and you will find the streaming site for 100% Noticias and Radio Ya. The news from channel four is replayed almost every hour on the 100% Noticias site for those who can stomach it. I forgot that it is not really news to Fydel untl it is published in GRANMA or placed in a video clip on the REAL NEWS NETWORK, but none the less, I was in Managua yesterday in an office within two blocks of the march and watched a part of the demonstration. I did not know that the site admnistrator was so interested in the users whereabouts. Should I check in first when I go back to St. Louis?

Fydel says that the march was not about political positions, sorry but that is a crock. Dora Maria Tellez and Mauricio Mendieta, (both members of political parties that were decapitated by the CSE), were abundantly clear that the march was all about about political rights and positions.

Finally, the site administrator denies that high inflation was triggered by this government but Nicaraguan economists Nestor Avendano and Luis Medal place a large portion of the blame on the government of Ortega.Honduras, Costa Rica, Guatemala and El Salvador all have lower inflation rates than Nicaragua and have taken aggresive measures to strengthen their financial systems and Central Banks. In the mean time a majority of the board of directors of the Central Bank of Nicaragua resigned due to political pressures. The Central Bank does not even have enough members on its board to reach a voting quorum. Since the country risk has increased and the government has failed to timely honor some of their financial committments( CENIS), the borrowing costs have increased, putting even more inflationary pressure on the economy and government.

shhh

Submitted by GreenGold on 17 July, 2008 - 21:40.

Facts have no relevance in the machinery of the propaganda of Tortilla con sal. Remember that the hymn of the F$LN clearly states that los yanquis are THE enemy of mankind and EVERYONE knows that the reporting of any media outlet other than Canal 4, and Radio Ya is funded by the imperialist pigs! La Bruja said it's so and so it's so!

Considering all the illegal proselytizing of the F$LN in the past two weeks, and despite all the times comandante 38% (and falling) has had the opportunity to address the FACT that Nicaragua suffers the worst economy in the region (despite ALL the fine support from Uncle Hugo and 12,500 promised tractors from that fine world citizen Iamawhackjob), nary a word from la dictadura in re: the economic situation of mi Nicaragua. Nope, he'd rather incite "The People" to kidnap private enterprise, blame it all on the intervention of los yanguis.

Hmmm, sound familiar??

Last point: why does the central bank NOT have a quorum? Oh yeah, el pacto (alleged in the minds of people who think CoolTop is Fantasy Island) decrees that the sitting president (comandante 38% [and falling] appoints same.

And the fault for all of this, obviously lies con quien????

We now return you to your regularly disgusting Nicaragua outlet for GRANMA and The Real News Network (sic and sick)

Short Term

Submitted by cookshow on 17 July, 2008 - 18:09.

Short term is getting shorter every day. While Montealegre or Rizo may have not provided the "solution" to all of Nicaragua's problems, you would not see foreign investors & aid providers running like their hair is on fire from this country, so you decide, is Ortega responsible for putting this country in worse shape than it was.

One thing is for certain, billboard manufactures seem to be doing quite well under this administration, & oh yeah, all the pink sure makes the skyrocketing food prices easier to swallow.