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I Met a Gringo ...Submitted by fyl on 20 June, 2008 - 12:01.
By that, I mean someone that fits the stereotype. Someone who is "here but not here". It helped remind me of what I miss being in Estelí. He is on disability (but with no obvious problem) and living near the beach. He has additional income from renting a farm he owns in the U.S. He doesn't even seem to be a bad guy but he is, well, just not here. He has lived in Costa Rica for two years. He knows about as much Spanish as I did before I took a one semester class in Jr. High. I suggested he get away from English speakers so he will be forced to learn. He says the people near where he lives including his landlady only speak Spanish. It seems to be more attitude than anything else. For example, he called a friend's office and told his secretary "I want to speak to xxxx". She didn't understand so he said it again, a bit louder. Eventually she decided he wanted to talk to her boss. Once connected, the first thing he said was "You should teach your secretary some English. You know, English is the language of business." He has a girlfriend who lives in San Jose. She doesn't speak English. They were practicing a few nouns. He told me he is just working on nouns first. What kinds? Well, he doesn't know lapiz but he does know cena. I think he is working on desayuno. My feeling is another 20 years of nouns and he will be ready for at least comer, ir, tener, and maybe decir.
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Viva y deje vivo
I met an hombre who'd live in the US for 14 years and no habla ingles. Live and let live.
my Nicaraguan bride (not 17!) is learning English . . .
here in S. California. When she first got here, she enrolled in an adult education ESL program held at an elementary school.
She noticed that the majority of attendees were older Mexican women who had been here for up to ~20 years and were finally getting around to trying to learn the language.
We figured that the free childcare that is provided to the students was one of the main reasons the ladies had bothered to start learning English after so many years.
That and being tired of depending on their children to translate everything for them :)
The difference between USA & Nicaragua is that in the USA (at least in CA, AZ, TX, FL, and most urban cities) one can get along perfectly speaking only Spanish. In Nic. you need to speak Spanish unless you are in Granada or SJdS.
I know I learned the language best during episodes where I was stuck somewhere in Managua and had to figure out where to go and how to get there.
If the attitude is good, i.e. I'm trying to learn, I want to learn, I'm taking steps to learn, then I cannot fault the person. The "everyone should speak English" attitude is where I find fault.
Doors of hope fly open when doors of promise shut. -Thomas D'Arcy McGee
speaking spanish
i have lived in c.a. for the last 15 years.iv´e lived in guate.,el salvador,honduus and now in nica..my spanish is bad to passable,and i dont care.most of the nica people i know speak english.i am not here becuse i like these people,im on soc.sec.and live down here real good on my income.in the states i would be working at wal marts.if you ever try getting on or off a bus or drive and see the taxis and busses tring to kill everyone.whats there to like.these people are where the are becuse that is where they want tobe.look at the elected leaders they have had.they voted for them.all´s i can say to them is thanks.thats why the living here is cheap compared to other countries.
Change a few details and you
Change a few details and you could be describing half the old Gringo stool moisteners here in Granada. Assuming his girl friend is around 17...
"The price good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men." Plato
who
who would want a 17 year old girlfriend? i do not understand that. what would i have in common with them? if you can't relate, then what kind of relationship is that?
stool moisteners? ewwwww!!! why? no depends?
when government grows, liberty yields, thomas jefferson
watch out
I actually agree with Jim on this... After the two minutes of blue pill miracle sex, the only common interests you two would have is your bank account. The bar stools are damp from sitting and sweating on them all day, it's hot and humid here ya know....
i don't
i don't know who jim is but che thanks you! this simple man said something someone agrees with!
sorry about the hot and humid! how is sjds? when government grows, liberty yields, thomas jefferson
Some of Fy'ls acquaintances would
I believe Mr Kinzel & Mr Christopher both fit in that category, things did not work out so well for either.
Significant Differences
Both Ken and Peter very much got involved in local culture. Peter developed excellent Spanish skills and invested in Nicaragua. Ken invested in and was working with locals. Peter managed to impregnate an underage Nicaraguan. Whether Ken did or not, he credited with such action.
Now, each of them made mistakes. Peter bailed but, I believe, with a profit. Ken lost his life. All that said, they were both very different than the Gringo I met.
Significant Differences
I see your point, you are right, not speaking spanish is a bigger crime than statutory rape, especially if you are involved in the local culture & "helping" people.
Very different, but any better?
good
point...
when government grows, liberty yields, thomas jefferson
you must be a lot older
you must be a lot older than me and i´ve been on s.s. for a couple of years.i´ll take a 19 or 20 year old any day
My Back Pages for Jim
Yes, my guard stood hard when abstract threats Too noble to neglect Deceived me into thinking I had something to protect Good and bad, I define these terms Quite clear, no doubt, somehow. Ah, but I was so much older then, I'm younger than that now.
"Let individuals contribute as they desire; but let us prohibit in effective fashion all corporations from making contributions for any political purpose, directly or indirectly." Theodore Roosevelt
relationship....
what are you going to relate to a 17 year old? texting? hip hop? staying out till 4 in the morning? hey, that's not for me.
i would be looking for someone i can relate to. but my spouse was born in the same hospital and a few months separate us. we grew up in similar neighborhoods and went skating at the same rink growing up. we went to similar schools and met at the same church. i married "the girl next door." we can almost read each other's minds - and no e-harmony necessary. but, that's just me.
your experiences may differ....
when government grows, liberty yields, thomas jefferson
he just said that...
because the wouldn't be able to talk her into voting conservative ;)
-Doug ©
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate
dude...
no coffee alert. that's funny! i wouldn't want to have to catch the 17 year old when she passed out at an obama concert.
hey doug aren't you supposed to be leaving? good luck! when government grows, liberty yields, thomas jefferson
Pretty Cruel
After reading this comment the only two words I could think of are prepotente and soberbia and not on your anonymous gringo's part. He may not look disabled but he most likely is. I know how I struggle to learn the Spanish language and I would never criticize anybody that keeps on trying.
PC is Politically Correct too
You say "He may not look disabled but he most likely is." He likely is. My comment was intended to convey that he can walk, he can talk, ... Now, maybe his disability is that he can't learn Spanish—not sure.
In any case, here we tend to "say it like it is" rather than need a PC filter.
Plain Speaking
I think it is just plain wrong to criticize someone when he or she is struggling to learn a foreign language. It is one heck of a lot better to try and fail then not to try, or even worse to sit back and criticize the effort. No PC language was intended on my part, please keep in mind you are the writer that injected the disability issue, although subtly questioning the disability.
I recognize a lot of "gringos" here in SJDS in FYL's post
They act just like the guy FYL has met in CR.
Their general feeling is that the whole world should learn English if they want to do business with them. Doing business with them includes buying eggs in the pulperia. Some of these people refuse to speak a word of Spanish after living here for about 4-5 years. The most hey manage is Gracias. And that is not used very often since they think whatever somebody does for them is expected of them.
Not only does the local population not respect them in may cases they resent the fact that these "gringos" move here, throw their money around and expect everyone to kiss their feet. (I used that body part since I don't wish to offend anyone).
A little more effort to, at least learn the basics of the Spanish language would be appreciated by most Nicaraguans. When anyone learns a second, third or fourth language, they are rarely expected to be perfectly fluent in that language. In fact, most people that speak English as a second language have a larger vocabulary and better grammar than most North Americans that speak English as a first Language.
As for the "disability issue", we all know that there is a whole industry in North America that makes sure that all disabled receive all they are “entitled” to. There certainly are truly disabled persons that require our help. The ones that wish to cash in on whatever is available should be cut off and made work for their money. The same applies to many people on welfare.
Let's not be too politically correct. Let us instead help the people that truly need our help. There are plenty of truly disabled people that are unable to fend for themself.
One of the things I really enjoy about living in Nicaragua is that I can choose the people i wish to help. No government tells me I have to spend my hard earned money to help deadbeats and fraud artists.
learning the language
aclimating one self to the culture,regardless of your bank account is the ONLY way to survive and perhaps even make it alive in Nicaragua. It is 1000% better for Nicaraguans to respect you,then to fear you because of your status as a powerfull gringo who refuses/has not bother enough to learned the language. You are more likely to be a victim in MANY ways. whats funny about this subjet is that a huge percentage of Gringos,HATE Hispanics that dont speak Inglish,or dislike the fact that they dont speak Inglish,aint that a biach.
FAP
Take Out The "Disability Issue"
For argument sake remove the discussion of the disability claim and look at the facts. If the man is studying encourage it, if he is a bum then say it plainly and stay away from him and his kind. Just dont play word games and make him look like a stereotypical ugly american if he has a hard time with the language. My take on the blog post was and is intellectual arrogance "He knows about as much spanish as I did BEFORE I took a one semester class in junior high". Who are we to say that this man is not making sufficent progress with his language studies. For those of us who are legally working or living here, (which I believe includes the vast majority of the posters, both expats and Nicaraguans), the presence of disability bums is barely tolerated but not accepted.
I re-read FYL's post...
I am curious, where did the idea that this person was "claiming" to be disabled come from ? You used the term; "the disability claim", when the post said;
"He is on disability (but with no obvious problem)"
Many people have disabilities that are not obvious, as FLY pointed out.
Under the federal Social Security Disability Act, "disability" means the "inability to engage in any substantial gainful activity by reason of any medically determinable physician or mental impairment which can be expected to last for a continuous period of not less than 12 months or result in death."
Many Veterans (the fine folks who go and fight and die so we can sit here reading this) by the time they are eligible for retirement, due to the riggers of their jobs, leave the service with substantial disabilities that limit their ability to "engage in any substantial gainful activity" and are there for also eligible for disability payments unrelated to Social Security. Military disability eligibility is different in they will award on partial disabilities. But disability pay is deducted from retirement pay.
A lot of people join the military when they are young, so seeing a 45 year old person who spent 20 or 25 years in service retired is not that uncommon. And unfortunately more and more of them are leaving the service with disabilities.
I am also curious about the term; "disability bums";
perhaps you would care to expound on this term you introduced into this discourse.
Leaving it as it is seems to present your thoughts (and you) in a rather negative fashion
-Doug ©
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate
Fair Comment
Fair comment regarding the difference between a disability claimant and and an approved benificiary. The definition of disability is rigorous in code and regulations. Perhaps much less rigorous in practice. My definition of a a disability bum is anyone who obtains disability benefits through a falsified claim, this is no different from a person who falsifies a property and casualty claim or a personal injury claim from a private insurer. To deny the existence of such people in Nicaragua and the U.S. is naive. Doug, I waited to "expound" due the personal nature of your comment and decided that if what I wrote presented my thoughts and my person to you in a negative way, then so be it.
Thanks
for clearing that up for me. I agree with you about the fraud issue, it steals resources from people that do need assistance . I also agree with your point about fraud existing in both Nicaragua and the US. It seems to exist in all segments of both societies and needs to be treated as the theft that it is. In stead of the nod and wink it usually gets.
But back to the term "disability bum", I am, for my own reasons, rather sensitive to the issues and attitudes that people with disabilities face.
From the Merriam-Webster dictionary;
bum- " a: one who sponges off others and avoids work, b: one who performs a function poorly"
I think the word "faker" as opposed to "bum" may convey your meaning more accurately.
"Doug, I waited to "expound" due the personal nature of your comment and decided that if what I wrote presented my thoughts and my person to you in a negative way, then so be it."
But I could be mistaken.
-Doug ©
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate
I used the word for a reason
Sad as it may be there is an under culture of people who literally brag about ripping off the insurance and disability system. They are bums, not mere fakers or grifters who take the money and move on.
The real issue IMO
is not so much their ability to learn the language. The issue is their reluctance to learn and use the language of the land. The issue is their superior attitude and the opinion that everyone should cater to them.
If that makes them an "ugly American" so be it.
Europeans and even Canadians seem to have a completely different attitude when it comes to other languages and cultures. (Again, this has been my experience and observation. It is not meant as criticism.)
Let's not make excuses for them and make them out to be learning challenged. Anyone that makes the least bit of effort will be able to communicate on a basic level after living in a country for several years.
No Spanish = Gringo price
This is the reason for the "gringo/foreigner price" that people like him pays when they move overseas. You can also find many Nicaraguans living in Miami for many years who do not speak any or only a few words in English and they pay "the nica price" in Miami too. Well, the point is that happens in both sides and they are the ones missing to know good people, to pay less for goods and services, enjoy their life better. etc. If any time you find a person like him, would be better to point him what advantages you have when you are able to communicate with others and recognize when someone is taking advantage of you because you do not have a "common" language. On the other issue, I am with Che with nothing to relate to 17 years old - no mutual interests on music, books or places that I like.