Water Power..cheap

Submitted by Doug on 26 May, 2008 - 01:30.

Having a seasonal stream on the farm I decided to check out the possibility of making some electricity from it. The commercial micro-hydro equipment was more than I wanted to spend on a "project" that may not provide it's own cost in power. Being a tinkering around kind of guy I found the main components much cheaper;

Joe Hartvigsen makes very sophisticated turgo runners, the part the water hits, at a good price, and can size and supply the nozzles also.

The nice folks at Windblue , make some excellent permanent magnet alternators and windmill parts. Joe Hartvigsen was able to supply the hydro components to mate with these alternators directly.

While this small runner/alternator combination isn't capable of massive wattage in my limit flow situation, hydro runs 24/7, quietly charging batteries and another power source is always welcome.

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good topic

Submitted by acc724 on 28 May, 2008 - 14:04.

topics like thsi are why i read this.i have a small finca in waslala,and,there is no electricity anywhere near me.keep posting good articles like this acc724

i will

Submitted by Che Guevara on 26 May, 2008 - 13:05.

have need for hydro power in the summers when i move onto the whatcom property. will ask you for assistance at that time. i will provide the fdc or tonas.

when government grows, liberty yields, thomas jefferson

pictures

Submitted by vern on 27 May, 2008 - 02:02.

i was wondering if you would post some pictures of your system when you are finished? i am very interested in your work. thanks

I sure will..

Submitted by Doug on 27 May, 2008 - 10:54.

I like to take photos, I just wish I could start NOW

-Doug

If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate

thanks

Submitted by vern on 27 May, 2008 - 11:58.

i would really like to see your pictures. i built a water wheel last year. it ran for about 12 months with out any problems. i was thinking of trying to make a little electricity with it. right now we use it to listen to while we are sitting out side. it is very peaceful. thanks again

if it goes round..

Submitted by Doug on 27 May, 2008 - 16:59.

you can make electricity, any small dc motor will fairly efficiently make some volts for you .

I like the sound of falling water too

-Doug

If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate

like an

Submitted by Che Guevara on 27 May, 2008 - 17:29.

air conditioning blower motor?

when government grows, liberty yields, thomas jefferson

I haven't tried..

Submitted by Doug on 27 May, 2008 - 18:07.

an AC motor, but it should work, but be aware of the direction of rotation and rated speed of the motor,

OVER HEATED CAPACITORS CAN CATCH ON FIRE--SPINNING MACHINERY CAN FLY APART WITH GREAT VELOCITY

----Nothing I write about should ever be tried by anyone under any circumstance.

If anyone tries any thing I have ever written about they do so by totally assuming full and complete responsibility for the safety of themselves and those around them.

And I can in no way be held in any way culpable for damages real or emotional that may result ----,EVER

:)

-Doug

If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate

i burned myself

Submitted by Che Guevara on 27 May, 2008 - 18:17.

and you are liable....

(millions i tell you, millions!)

when government grows, liberty yields, thomas jefferson

you'll need..

Submitted by Doug on 27 May, 2008 - 18:23.

a good lawyer.. ;)

-Doug

If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate

know

Submitted by Che Guevara on 27 May, 2008 - 18:25.

one? have insurance? homeowner's?

when government grows, liberty yields, thomas jefferson

Need a good lawyer?

Submitted by dixietraveller on 27 May, 2008 - 23:07.

Call Ima Shyster at the law firm of Dewey, Cheatham, & Howe! :) (Yeah, kinda stale and corny, I know, but hey, it's the best I could do!)

O quantum est in rebus inane! / A palabras necias, oídos sordos.

I know the answer! The answer lies within the heart of all mankind! The answer is twelve? I think I'm in the wrong building. - Peanuts (Charles M. Schulz)

pretty

Submitted by Che Guevara on 28 May, 2008 - 13:57.

good! got photos?

when government grows, liberty yields, thomas jefferson

Speaking of electricity

Submitted by coulterica on 26 May, 2008 - 10:09.
Just examining my recent electric bill and found it very interesting. The price goes up dramitically as you consume more, creating a BIG incentive to conserve. 1st 25 kwh 1.4346/C$ kwh 35.87 2nd 25 kwh 3.0907/C$ kwh 77.27 next 50 kwh 3.2371/C$ kwh 161.86 next 114 kwh 4.2781/C$ kwh 487.70 next 286 kwh 4.2958/C$ kwh 1228.60 next 500 kwh 6.8232/C$ kwh 3411.60 next 241 kwh 8.3906/C$ kwh 2022.13 Total C$ 7425.00 taxes and stuff C$ 1614.29 -------- C$9039.88 or about $us 475.00 I'm afraid to ask what happens to the rate beyond the 8.39 the last 241 kwh. I'm sure there are people that have looked at the cost of solar. By my calcualations, I'm paying about $.38 per kwh. In doing very LITTLE research I think I found that San Diego has about the highest cost in the US at $.18/kwh. Intially that would make solar look very attractive here. However, if you take away the rebates offered by many states that reduce the cost of installation in some case by half, then unfortunately, it seems as if its no bargain here. -pc

Was that one month's electricity usage?

Submitted by Daddy-YO on 26 May, 2008 - 15:30.

1,241 kWh, wow!! You must run a big place for the gotta-have-A/C bunch. If you generated your own electricity burning diesel that amount of energy would require 92 gallons of fuel, plus the by-product of a tad more than one ton of CO2 which is what Nicaragua would produce anyway.

1,241 kWh is the amount of energy needed to melt a 14.8 ton block of ice. I would suggest ice sculptures placed about the office, for the decorative value. (Maybe you could get it shipped up from the Antarctic monthly or ask a passing European freighter to snag a nation-size berg as they break off the continental shelf.)

Assuming it's one month's usage, that energy is equivalent to 5 hours per day of full sunlight on 89 square feet. It doesn't seem like much, however, photovoltaic's are only 10% efficient, so you'd need an array of 30'x30' of solar cells, plus sufficient storage. To store what you use in one day, you'd need a total of 2,535 lbs. of lead-acid batteries. You're consuming an average of 1724 watts power. Let's say peak demand is 2500 watts, then from what Doug says (below), your solar array will cost you $7,500 plus shipping & installation. With solar cells plus Nica's grid power, you might even be able to drop into the poor people's electricity rate ranges.

For a comparison, now that I'm back in South Jersey and can check my bills, my rate for electricity (not scaled for usage) was 17.4¢/kWh in October and 19.85¢/kWh this May, an irreversible trend that may be happening everywhere except in China, Venezuela & Saudi Arabia.

Unfortunately

Submitted by coulterica on 26 May, 2008 - 17:22.

Yes - that was one month. We have two 1800 btu AC's that run about eight hours a day and a 1200 btu that runs about 8 hours per night. Seven computers with two screens, pool pump that runs a couple hours a day and the usual stuff...TV, lights etc. Balanced with the other expenses...mainly labor, it's all still a bargain. So you are saying "roughly" 30x30 total sq. ft in panels and a crap load of batteries (like 50) for storage.

I could use some ice...we are always running out. I’ll take your word about the energy required to melt the ice but would love to see your equation. How about 4 - 2in square cubes of ice in 6 oz of gin and 6 oz of tonic at 35 degrees centigrade – How long will cubes last?........ Longer than the gin and tonic…..

Doing my homework

Submitted by fyl on 26 May, 2008 - 11:48.

I have been looking at electric rates, installation cost, ... If I had infinite time I would probably figure out how to not run in power to the Geek Ranch. But, I don't.

My issues are little hydro potential quite far from where we need the power, seasonal wind and low solar potential. I agree that some combination plus wood gasification and such could probably meet the needs but it would not be easy.

But, if we can run off a diesel generator "for a while", we could probably keep working on the alternatives. Thus, the issue becomes the cost of care and feeding of such a unit. Well, a good estimate is you will get about 10KWH of electricity per gallon of diesel. At $5/gallon, that's $.50/KWH before you get to actual investment and maintenance costs.

a good price for solar...

Submitted by Doug on 26 May, 2008 - 10:46.

is usually $5 a watt. The Chinese have built large solar panel factories and the first couple of years output are consigned for domestic use only. When they open the export on all the factories, prices should come down.

You can go off grid in stages, battery back-up to cover outages first, and add panels as you can afford them. Depending on your situation, add wind, hydro, or a small alternative fueled battery charger to the system later.

Then just tell the power company to take a hike.

-Doug

If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate

Similar problems

Submitted by fyl on 26 May, 2008 - 06:13.

I think you and I have similar problems. That is we both like to work on interesting projects but don't get to yet. You, because you aren't here and me because I decided the route to getting to do them involved building a tourist facility first. For example, we have what is supposed to be a year round stream on the property but I still have never seen it.

Oh well, someday, ...