Dealing with the Police

Submitted by fyl on 20 December, 2007 - 17:36.
Having lived in Nicaragua for four years, I want to toss out a local look at law enforcement. All too often you only hear about reasons to fear law enforcement here. I actually find it quite the opposite from what I saw and heard about in the US.

Law enforcement is a mix of private security forces (security guards, in other words), municipal police in some cities, national police (two parts: traffic police are separate from the regular police) and the military. I toss in the military because they serve much like the National Guard does in the US and should be considered.

Security guards are really about the same as in the US other than they are more likely to be unarmed here. Their job is to protect something specific and they will be hesitant to get involved in something else. That said, the security guards for the cigar factory across the street from my old house would almost always show their presence when someone unfamiliar came to my door at night.

Municipal police are few and far between at least in this area. There are a few in Estelí. You can find them, for example, in the public market. I know little about them other than they certainly don't appear to be threatening.

The regular and "transito" parts of the national police are the majority of the police presence in Nicaragua. Lots are young but, again, more likely to smile than threaten you. Those with any amount of seniority have received a lot of police training (much of which has come from the US including during the 1980s) and, in every case I am aware of, have been professional. They are clearly under-paid and under-equipped but that is really the norm in Nicaragua.

From my personal experience talking with them locally, they seem to know their job and try to do it to the best of their ability and within their budget. I have supplied a bit of beer or rum for an off-duty cop but never because I felt it was a requirement--it was just an excuse for talking.

My experience with transit police outside of Managua has been fine. Some routine "check your papers" stops but never anything abnormal. In Managua, I have twice been stopped for what I would call a "shakedown". That is, a virtually bogus "you did X". While I know C$100 would have "cleared" me of the crime, I chose to hold my ground. Never had my license taken away or received a ticket. And I certainly never felt threatened.

A friend who kept putting off getting her driver's license (but not putting off driving) has been stopped several times by transit police. They suggested that she really should get her license (which she eventually did) but it never went beyond that.

The military is generally only called on for disaster relief and other "unusual" events. For example, they deliver ballots during elections. There is a big military base in Estelí so you see people in military uniforms in town. Again, never a problem.

I remember as a kid, the standard line from parents was "if there is a problem, ask a policeman". When I was a kid, this seemed to make sense. Today, I guess I would make a different suggestion if I had a kid in a US major city. Rural police, on the other hand, still seem to be pretty "human". Or, at least they were six years ago.

For a current, big-city "compare it to the US" reference, I refer you to a sott.net article. While the article doesn't reflect the norm (yet) it certainly does offer information on some real events that don't make a lot of sense. I have never seen this sort of action in Nicaragua.

From the sott.net article:

In Fort Worth, TX, a patrolling policeman saw a young man smoking a cigarette outside the home of his parents. The policeman, suspicious that the man was underage, spoke out to him, but he was by then going back into the house and didn't realize the officer was speaking to him. This perceived failure to follow police instructions led, in the absence of any crime, to seven carloads of police descending on the home , the arrest of two people, and parents in tears.

I have never seen this sort of action in Nicaragua.

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US police

Submitted by expat on 19 February, 2008 - 09:07.

I am currently in the USA, and have not yet been to Nicaragua (but will be going there next month). I have spent a lot of time in Mexico, and have traveled extensively in Asia.

I can say without a doubt that I fear the US police more than any other, and that it has grown worse in recent years. Sure, there are good cops and bad and it's not nice to stereotype. But in general, the attitude of the US police these days is that they are heroes, invincible and can do whatever they like without repercussions. It's really gotten bad ever since they started receiving tasers, which are essentially electronic torture devices that they use with impunity. Several hundred people in the USA have already died from tasers, their hearts giving out from the shock and excruciating pain. The USA is in no position to lecture the Latin American police on brutality.

funny,

Submitted by Che Guevara on 19 February, 2008 - 22:31.

but, i live next to a big city in the states and whenever i have wanted assistance from the police, they pretty much do absolutely nothing. if the offense is not a rape or a murder, they could not be bothered. just my personal experience and i am in a position to see what they do. have seen peace officers that either had to fight or shoot. i like the white lightening as less intrusive than the hand gun. of course if crooks didn't run or fight, no white lightening. and you could not pay me enough to be a peace officer. they have a tough job. last time i was in nica, one nica peace officer gave me directions. another stoppped me at a check point no attempted shake down. another stopped me at a check point and attempted to shake me down, which wasted 30 minutes of my time. just my dos centavos.

when government grows, liberty yields, thomas jefferson

funny,

Submitted by Che Guevara on 19 February, 2008 - 22:31.

but, i live next to a big city in the states and whenever i have wanted assistance from the police, they pretty much do absolutely nothing. if the offense is not a rape or a murder, they could not be bothered. just my personal experience and i am in a position to see what they do. have seen peace officers that either had to fight or shoot. i like the white lightening as less intrusive than the hand gun. of course if crooks didn't run or fight, no white lightening. and you could not pay me enough to be a peace officer. they have a tough job. last time i was in nica, one nica peace officer gave me directions. another stoppped me at a check point no attempted shake down. another stopped me at a check point and attempted to shake me down, which wasted 30 minutes of my time. just my dos centavos.

when government grows, liberty yields, thomas jefferson

I drove a rented van for 2

Submitted by trieckman on 21 December, 2007 - 18:41.

I drove a rented van for 2 weeks for a total of about 1000 miles. I was only in Managua to leave and return to the airport. I took daily trips to Leon, Granada, Masaya, Mataglapa, Esteli, and a few beaches. I was staying in La Trinidad, which is South of Esteli. My experiences were with the transit police at roadside checkpoints. I never had any problems. I was talked into buying some raffle tickets ($10) while on my way to Matagalpa. I went down a few one-way streets in Esteli and Granada--they are not marked very well. Usually I would have one of the locals wave me down and tell me I was going the wrong way. Overall my experience with the police was good, always friendly.

My bad experience with driving were with other vehicles passing me in no passing zones (this seems to be normal driving in Nicaragua) and people, bicycle riders, stalled vehicles, and animals on the roads at night.

Perfectly acceptable response...

Submitted by Doug on 21 December, 2007 - 14:33.

It might have been one of those funny cigarettes.

They might just have been trying to save him from the horrors of Reefer Madness

this kid is damn lucky his big brother is looking out for him ...

now if we could just get more surveillance cameras, think of all the people the government could help.. ;)

-Doug

If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate

stopped twice

Submitted by anthonyg on 21 December, 2007 - 10:59.

On our previous trip of two weeks about 5 years ago, we drove to and through many places including Montelimar, Leon, Masaya, Granada, the Nueva Segovia region, and actually a fair bit in Managua. We were driving a new rented Toyota Prado and I had my US license.

Got pulled over once in a rural area near Montelimar at an impromptu checkpoint (they were pulling many cars over). They just checked papers, asked where we were going and all that and sent us on our way.

Pulled over once in Managua on for turning from the wrong lane or something. Ridiculous as the lanes weren't marked, but anyway, the officer was young, clean cut, and quite professional. My mother was with us at the time, and being a Nicaraguan, started to negotiate.

I was mortified, as that type of behavior where we live in the US would probably get you a trip down to the station. My mom told the cop a story of how were leaving Managua that day and could he be so kind as to just 'take care of the ticket' right there. She wrapped a ten dollar bill in the ticket and was trying to hand it back to him. He was adamant about not accepting, kept saying that he could get in real trouble for taking that money. My mom was insistent that it wasn't a bribe, she was just asking him the personal favor of paying the ticket for us. She threw in another few dollars for his troubles. He resisted strongly, but finally relented and took it. I don't know if this is how the bribe game is played, but he sounded sincere in not wanting to take the bribe. Perhaps my mother corrupted one of the good cops!

Anyway, a lot of miles through Nica, and neither experience with the police was bad.

Transito

Submitted by fyl on 21 December, 2007 - 10:01.

It is interesting that all the comments so far that talk about "a problem" are talking about transitos. Anyone ever had any problems with "the real police"?

police

Submitted by hobo on 21 December, 2007 - 09:44.

I have been stoped by the police 4 time always in the Manauga had and had 4 different results 1st time it cost me $5.oo next time they took my licence 3rd time they said the wanted money alot $20.00 I said no they said they could take me to jail, I said lets go....and I WAS SCARED THEY WOULD. But they did not and after about a 20 minute wait the let me go on my way...but compared to the U.S. I would rather pay the money on the street than get a ticket for $200+ dollars get points on my licence and have my insurance go up.

I can't remember where I saw

Submitted by charliedawson on 21 December, 2007 - 11:04.

I can't remember where I saw it (it may have been a TV show, or I may have seen a news clip), but one of the Northern European countries imposes fines based on financial status, and they are particularly rough on "aggressive driver" infractions. As I recall, the point of the article was a rich driver that was cited for tail-gating, and was fined something like $200,000.00. Can you imagine a system like that in Nicaragua, or in the US? If anyone has the correct details of this article, please feel free to set me straight.

Finland uses a progressive or day-fine system

Submitted by mjt on 21 December, 2007 - 15:35.

I suspect other countries also use such a system (Sweden and Denmark do for many offenses), but Finland has done so for many decades. It stems from a basic theory of deterrence implying that while a small fine might deter a poor person, it would not have the same deterrent value to a rich person. The $200k fine for tail-gating might be urban legend or might be true, I can't say. The "Day-Fine" label stems from the fact that penalties are calculated based on the offenders daily salary: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Day-fine

Police in Jinotega?

Submitted by enfermera94 on 21 December, 2007 - 09:52.

On the way to Jinotega from Mga what are my chances of getting stopped by the police? My husband has no patience for corrupt policemen. He'll probably would go to jail before paying a bribe. We had problems getting stopped the last time i visited Nica by the airport, but that was all.

i had the attempted shakedown

Submitted by Che Guevara on 20 December, 2007 - 21:47.

"My experience with transit police outside of Managua has been fine. Some routine "check your papers" stops but never anything abnormal. In Managua, I have twice been stopped for what I would call a "shakedown". That is, a virtually bogus "you did X". While I know C$100 would have "cleared" me of the crime, I chose to hold my ground. Never had my license taken away or received a ticket. And I certainly never felt threatened."

i had the attempted shakedown once and outwaited them. they let me go.

i don't think the fort worth example is a good one. the world over, if you walk away from a peace officer, they will pursue. a race to the front door is never a good approach. and the homeowner "adults" only compound the problem by not opening the door to peace officers. the writer of that piece seems to have a liberal bias. tears? nothing like putting the reader in the shoes of parents that don't open the door. the adults seem to have an abscense of common sense. the place to argue about conduct of peace officers is the police chief's office. it can even get rid of the courtroom experience. i have seen it happen. and when it does, i have seen the peace officer lose their job. tougher to get rid of bad peace officers in huge cities.

Shakedown

Submitted by enperadore on 20 December, 2007 - 22:04.

Been driving here in nicaragua for over 18 months and been stoped many time, mostly in managua and I have stood my ground, just told them to go ahead and give me the ticket, didn't argue with them if I did or not the infraction. Everytime they have given me back my license and sent me on my way. Only time I got a ticket was in Masaya from a female office who said I stopped too far ahead of the stop sign that is at the Coyotepe intersecion as you come from tipitapa. I hate the stops officers make just to check your papers but I guess that is the custom here. I made up my mind that I will not fuel corruption by giving bribes to officers. I have the time to go to transito and get my license back anyway. Besides, I use a DC license which is really easy and cheap to replace. The corruption has to stop somewhere and if we take a stand maybe we can start making a difference. Back in DC I felt safe with the police, had many friend that were in law enforcement. here I try to avoid being near police officer because I know some of them are the biggest thiefs.