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BoliviaSubmitted by TermnalVee on 20 October, 2007 - 19:27.
Political struggle in Bolivia is not new, but what do you think of the latest? http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7052499.stm How do you think Sr. Daniel would react if the same or similar happedned in Nica? ( categories: )
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PollIn Nicaragua, my income will come from Job in Nicaragua 4% Run business in Nicaragua 35% Pension/investments/savings 35% External work (e.g., on-line) 20% No clue 7% Total votes: 46 A ThoughtChochada, literally senile means a stupid thing. |
Partially right
Jino, you are partially correct in that the FAA controls air traffic and does promulgate regulations for airports in the US--international, regional, and rinky-dink little ones. However, the FAA has nothing to say when it comes to landing/usage fees, and other charges other than those assessed against passengers. Revenue for ATC's is generated by taxes and passenger fees (see http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/75xx/doc7597/09-27-AirTraffic.pdf). Neither the FAA nor the federal govt. controls airport ops. They also cannot dictate whether an airport stays opens or closes. There are two exceptions to this: Reagan/National and Dulles, both of which are operated under the Washigton Airports Authority, an independent interstate agency created with the "consent" of the federal govt. Prior to 1987, they were under the direct control of the feds.
Miami Intl. Airport is owned and operated by the Miami-Dade County Board of Commissioners. It is one of the most expensive airports in the US as far as landing fees go--$17.01 per passenger as of June, 2007. This fee is built into your ticket.
In contrast to Bolivia and Nicaragua, there is no federal "airport authority" in the US. MGA is "managed by Empresa Administradora de Aeropuertos Internacionales (EAAI), a descentralized or autonomous state entity with its own equity and legal status, created by Decree 1292 of August 11, 1983, as published in La Gaceta No. 186 of August 16, 1983, and as amended by Decree 49-91 of December 22, 1992." (see their website www.eaai.com.ni Santa Cruz in Bolivia is controlled by the Bolivian govt. and is operated by Sabsa under contract.
If Miami-Dade County decided to close MIA, they could do so with impunity from the feds. Of course all federal property would have to be released like ATC computers, radar etc.
DFW's Board could also decide to terminate services (not that they ever would), as it too is not under federal control or mandate to operate. (see http://www.dfwairport.com/airport/administration.htm).
In any event, your analogy to Waco is completely off-base. And I doubt very much that the feds would intervene if MIA, DFW or ay other airport decided to close. Certainly no troops would take over the runways. I'm not saying they wouldn't throw a fit and claim that the closure interefered with commerce--that all encompassing clause in our pesky constitution that allows the feds to step in every once in a while or more. Shoot, if DFW closed, air traffic in the US would basically come to a standstill. AA would be out of business for the foreseeable future. And Southwest would be worth trillions!!! Oh there would be hell to pay for sure, but no troops. ________________ You know, I have one simple request, and that is to have sharks with frickin laser beams attached to their heads!
pre or post 9/11
Post 9/11 a takeover of an airport by unauthorized people, such as the case in Bolivia, cannot be tolerated by the US Feds. Each airliner on the ground is a potential WMD; security cannot be guaranteed.
Legalities would be swept away in a heartbeat. Nothing would be allowed to take off, thats for sure.
You are correct, airports can be closed or opened by the appropriate legal body. But no airliner takes off without Homeland Security say-so. And in an airport takeover situation HS just cannot take the risk that nothing bad will happen. Minimum, there would be fighter patrols overhead.
ok
but what happened in Bolivia would never happen here because the locals control the $$$ and payment is made to them in the first place.
2nd, in the event of an improper incursion, it would be local PD not troops that would be sent in to quell the disturbance.
Interestingly enough, it was the local govt. in Santa Cruz that called for the masses to take over. As I understand it the locals were blocking an AA flight and an Argentinian airline flight from taking off without cash payment. Again, that would never happen here. Yeah we have our own brand of underhandedness and political corruption, I know. But if there is one thing that can be said about the US it is that we tend to solve our political differences with less violence ________________ You know, I have one simple request, and that is to have sharks with frickin laser beams attached to their heads!
FAA
The US feds showed their colors at Waco where 80 people died and it was just a farm. For occupancy of DFW airport, I would expect a full scale army attack and don't spare the bullets. The Israelis would have had snipers everywhere and it would be a hundred dead in 20 minutes. DO or Castro would probably give a speech on TV and keep going until they gave up. Chavez is a model of restraint compared to the US.
I suppose Bolivia could partition and then build a wall between the rich and poor like the Israelis or the US / Mexico. Just what we need, yet another microscopic country in the world thinking they know all the answers.
Maybe some clarification
Maybe some clarification from the "frontlines." My sister wrote:
-evo trying to flex his muscle, militarize the airport, santa cruz trying to distance itself from evo and la paz. there is a big movement here to be autonomous. !Autonomia, Si! there are always marches and such, politicians and the wealthy mujeres dressed in white waving green and white autonomia flags.... but lots of tension/racism here in general b/w 'crucenos' y 'pacenos', or 'cambas' y coyas' (de SC y LP respectively). nothing nnew
The airport in Corn Island
The airport in Corn Island is taken all the time... Even the last time I flew in, the gates had to be shut around the terminal and we couldn't get out for quite a while. I can think of several times in the last couple of years that the community had taken the runway... they even cancel school so the kids can march up and down.
My sister, who lives in Santa Cruz, said it really isn't so much about Evo and his politics but had more to do with American Airlines cancelling its flights into Santa Cruz (or something like that) ... it is being spun by the press.
AA not the problem
AA has not cancelled its flights into santa cruz. in fact, they are offering special deals to santa cruz from MIA. ________________ You know, I have one simple request, and that is to have sharks with frickin laser beams attached to their heads!
This makes more sense
From what I see of Bolivia (and I admit I am not an expert but I have been watching/collecting data for a few years), this makes a lot more sense. What is happening in Bolivia seems a lot like the end of White Rule in South Africa.
Santa Cruz is the center of the "haves". The indigenous population has been getting the short end of the stick for a long time. When there was a lot of silver in Bolivia, things "seemed" ok. The new silver is oil and gas. When government after government started giving away these rights, the people resisted.
After many administrations being run out of office for these actions (many of which clearly violated the law), the indigenous majority got their president. Morales has a tough enough fight internally--he doesn't need spin by the world press added to his list of enemies.
Hmmm
Perhaps. I think it is the other way around. This looks just like a chavista move to nationalize oil. Don't jump on me for this but in the US, as far as I know, airports are under the control of the local govt. For example, MIA and FLL are under the authority of their respective county govts. Yes I realize Bolivia is not the US, but is the Bolivian govt. covering 100% of the costs of running the airport?
I see the whole fiasco as the locals flexing their collective muscles against an ever increasingly chavista/communist president. What amazes me truly, is that each one of these dictators-in-training-thinks that he is going to be the one that makes communis/marxism work. THey actually think that Cuba is and has been successful. How sad for the people that live there.
________________ You know, I have one simple request, and that is to have sharks with frickin laser beams attached to their heads!
How wonderful to have the opportunity
This looks just like a chavista move to nationalize oil. No kidding! What a concept! Something that is worth $85 a barrel, why would anyone want to preserve a majority stake in that? Latin America has a long and hard fought history of Catholic liberation theology and populist sentiment. Yes, these struggles are based on class-lines and socialist in nature. Bush and Uncle Sam are so buried in Iraq that our little brothers to the South smell an opportunity to get out from under the bootprint, at least temporarily. Who can blame them. On stage comes Chavez, who has the cajones to give some rhetoric back to the US and give the smaller countries some economic support. Damn, looks like we have a mini revolution. Treating it as just another Castro experiment in failure is overly simplistic. These guys have a chance this time because the US is in over its head over here where I live in the Middle East. I wish my country was more well mannered, but alas, maybe we have to learn it the hard way. BTW: Who controls the airports? Talk about a straw man.....
Communists?
Note that Bolivia has nationalized its national resources. It has not excluded foreign companies from developing and distributing those resources--just from owning the resources themselves. It is also important to realize this is "again". Nationalization has been done twice before and what happened to un-nationalize is not very clean.
It is easy to find resources that spin like your comments above. But, if you look harder, you fill find many alternatives. That is, articles that fill in the history rather than just offer knee-jerk responses to what happened on a particular day. Here are some:
There are lots more but, to find them, you need to look beyond the classic "Morales is another Chavez/Castro/Ortega" articles. To answer your initial question about how Ortega would respond, I would hope the same. Let's say that oil is discovered off-shore in Nicaraguan territory. My hope is that he would say that Nicaragua is the owner of the oil but he would work with private enterprise to develop those resources sharing in the profits.
WOW
It amazes me that people really believe that the methods used by Morales/Chavez/Castro/Ortega and all the others have even a chance. Why do these very same people immediately begin talking about the big bad empire to the north? Amazing!
I don't care who writes the articles. The facts are that never in the history of the world have these tactics worked. I defy any of you to show me a single nationalized government where the "re-distribution of wealth" has worked. Chavez is a fool. His country may have wealth as a result of his nationalization but his people are dirt poor except the always present in Latin culture ruling class. Yeah, his government is so successful Venezuela is experiencing one of the greatest population exoduses in history! Castro is a has been: his people have been living in poverty for 40+ years. Ortega 1.0 left Nicaragua with what kind of inflation?
Robert Mugabe has done a stellar job of re-distributing wealth in his country. I hear Zimbabwe is now a top-notch place to live, and is currency is going to replace all other world currencies.
Hitler nationalized industry and resources as well. That worked well for Germany now didn't it?
Let's see, what other wonderful examples of nationalization and re-distribution can we find?
All the history in the world--Latin-American--or otherwise is irrelevant. What matters is government control or ownership of resources doesn't work
Yes, capitalism and American greed have tremendous problems and poor people suffer under those economic theories as well. But given the choice, most folks around the world would be willing to risk even their lives to get here and at least make a go for it. ________________ You know, I have one simple request, and that is to have sharks with frickin laser beams attached to their heads!
hitler did pretty good
Hitler took a backward suffering hyerinflation, high unemployment situation in 1936 and was running 90% of Europe by 1942, only 6 years for an economic turn around and a darned good try at conquest. Next time you are in Paris, Brussels, Amsterdam, ask who did the most damage to their cities. It wasn't Hitler, it was the liberators.
The Russians were a peasant society in 1917, they put a man in space before the US and became the worlds #2 superpower. They run more space missions than the US even to this day. Not bad for a bunch of dictators.
Saddam held Iraq together as one country; more than the US can achieve after 600,000 dead and a wiped out infrastructure.
Go back in the mists of time; it was not democracies that gave us the USA, Canada, a Spanish speaking central and south america, english speaking Australia and New Zealand, the empire of Rome.
We are not discussing Jews, Russia, Poland, Rhodesia or WWII. Just wanted to point out that some dictators can move mountains and democracies have had very few successes in comparison.
Your point that Bolivians are poor is of merit. Nicaraguans are poorer and we have had 15 years of de-nationalization and giving land back to pre-80's owners. So far I see 1) no move whatever by DO to nationalize anything and 2) no benefit to the poor of Nicaragua after 15 years of right-ish policies.
errr, uhhmmmm
if they'd only tried harder, and had the sage in charge, i know they'd have made it!
Sorry I wasted my time
Sounds like you only wanted to editorialize--not get an answer to your question.
Don't be sorry
This is part of the process. But you should read this article: http://www.wsws.org/articles/2007/may2007/boli-m22.shtml. It's from the very site you quoted and basically agrees with me. I did and do not want to only editorialize. Debate is a wonderful way to learn. Heck, I made my way through law school arguing with my good friend and classmate. At the end of the day, we knew the material perfectly.
________________ You know, I have one simple request, and that is to have sharks with frickin laser beams attached to their heads!